acorn preferences

shedder

Active Member
I saw an article in the new Deer and Deer Hunting mag on acorns. It claimed acorn preferences for deer were

white
pin
red
black
burr
live

I thought this is a weird list and pin oak really! I never heard that before. A quick google makes it likely the author was aping this info.

http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/armchair_biologist/acorns/acorns.html

http://www.nyantler-outdoors.com/acorns.html

https://www.google.ca/search?q=deer...&gfe_rd=cr&ei=XZyfV-umLYeZhQTNpLpo&gws_rd=ssl

So is this just web crap or are Pin acorns of real use to deer?
 
I am not sure about pin oaks because we don't have any in our area but order of preference here is Chinquapin, White, Red, Black Jack, and Post oak in that order...My sawtooths still haven't produced so not sure how they are going to like those...
 
I know many say burr is low on the list, but at the farm that I grew up hunting on they gobbled them up as soon as they fell. I have a buddy that grew up 5 miles away from that farm and he to claims that burr is low on the list. I have 4 seedlings from these trees to plant on the new farm.
 
I have always seen where members of the white oak family are preferred over members of the red oak family because of the tannin in them (apparently tannin makes a bitter taste). White oaks are: white, bur, chinkapin......... Red oaks are: Red, black, pin......

Give me a bunch of members of the white oak family and some healthy norther red oaks and I'll be happy! You can keep the pin and black oaks as far as I am concerned for deer.
 
I saw an article in the new Deer and Deer Hunting mag on acorns. It claimed acorn preferences for deer were

white
pin
red
black
burr
live

I thought this is a weird list and pin oak really! I never heard that before. A quick google makes it likely the author was aping this info.

http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/armchair_biologist/acorns/acorns.html

http://www.nyantler-outdoors.com/acorns.html

https://www.google.ca/search?q=deer...&gfe_rd=cr&ei=XZyfV-umLYeZhQTNpLpo&gws_rd=ssl

So is this just web crap or are Pin acorns of real use to deer?

Here is another one .... http://www.imbmonsterbucks.com/m/info.php?id=168
 
A number of factors influence which acorns are consumed at which time ... including when they drop. The following article provides some valuable insight regarding the multitude of factors influencing/determining when various types of OAK acorns are likely to be eaten. It appears no precise type of pecking order for deer consumption of acorns can be expected to exist across all situations; however, the article indicates white oak acorns (with no particular order in that category) might be eaten before red oak acorns AND this author believes tannin has less to do with order of consumption then hunters (and maybe authors in deer related publications believe. Hope you enjoy the article. I like to plant whites to reds on a 70/30 ratio.
http://www.geocities.com/nuttreegordon.comACORN.prp.htp
 
I have always seen where members of the white oak family are preferred over members of the red oak family because of the tannin in them (apparently tannin makes a bitter taste). White oaks are: white, bur, chinkapin......... Red oaks are: Red, black, pin......

Give me a bunch of members of the white oak family and some healthy norther red oaks and I'll be happy! You can keep the pin and black oaks as far as I am concerned for deer.
I agree 100%
 
Ok, similar comments to when this subject has come up before. I was not impressed with the article. The author gave no justification for his list which he likely ripped off the web. A classic sign of the times.

I don't remember any studies on acorn preferences but would love to see some. It varies by tree and its local conditions for sure. I suspect a consistent water and nutrient supply followed by genetics as factors. 5% of the trees are supposed to be the best producers, too.

From what I have gathered

white group

white, swamp white, swamp chestnut, Chinkapin, DCO's, Concordia, burr,

are the most palatable

post, chestnut, live, english

less so.

red\black group

Reds, pins, etc. are higher in fat but the tannin levels are high so they come last. It would be interesting if breeding or engineering could lower red tannins although that could just make weevils happy.
 
I know here the post oaks are dead last on order of preference. Red oaks are only behing chinquapin and white oaks but only while the other 2 are actively dropping. Once they stop actually dropping acorns the deer move right onto the reds and our white oaks either rot on the ground or germinate. I have thousands upon thousands of germinated white oak seedlings throughout our property that just need to be released!
 
dead link?
I can't get the link to work; I'll cut / paste the relevant parts of the article.


ACORNS
Sam Thayer

http://www.geocities.com/nuttreegordon/ACORNprp.htm
North American Fruit Explorers Vol. XXXVI No. 3
"As one who processes and eats 15-30 gallons of acorns annually, who has studied the use of acorns extensively, and who teaches workshops on using acorns as food, I would like to share some of my knowledge and clear up a few misconceptions.
2. Tannins do cause the bitter flavor of acorns, and the red/black oak group does tend to have more tannin, but that is not why the red oaks taste so much more bitter than the white oaks. The difference in bitterness is primarily due to a difference in the physical structure of the flesh of the acorns of the two groups. The tannin in acorns of the red oak group readily dissolves in your saliva, while that in acorns of the white oak group does not. Thus, you taste much of the tannin in red oak acorns, and little of the tannin in white oak acorns. This is primarily what accounts for the difference in flavor between the two groups.
In two different tests, the percentage of tannin in the composition of northern red oak Quercus rubra acorns was 9.8% and 7.4%; for white oak Quercus alba, 5.6% and 4.4%; for chestnut oak Quercus prinus, 10.4% and 7.8%. (Statistics from Karl Petruso and Jere Wickens, “The Acorn in Aboriginal Subsistence in Eastern North America” in Experiments and Observations in Aboriginal Wild Plant Utilization in Eastern North America, 1984, Indiana Historical Society.) Note that chestnut oak, a member of the white oak group normally touted as “sweet and edible” (and often as the most sweet and edible acorn in the East) contains more tannin in these samples than does red oak. And while white oak contains significantly less tannin than the other two, it tastes remarkably similar to chestnut oak and not at all like red oak. Furthermore, one who has tasted both white and red oak, on account of flavor alone, might suppose that red oak has twenty times as much tannin, so much does it exceed white oak in bitterness - but in fact it contains less than twice as much. It is obvious that the bitterness of acorns is not primarily determined by the level of tannin they contain.

As further evidence that the flavor is determined by a difference in physical structure, notice how white, burr, or chestnut oak acorns often taste pleasant fresh from the tree, but terrible when ground and boiled into mush; the grinding and cooking physically releases the tannins that were previously locked up, probably in hydrophobic vacuoles - cavities that repel water, and which often hold tannins in starchy plant structures. You will also notice that shelled red oak acorns dry in two to three days at room temperature, while burr oak acorns under the same conditions require as many weeks. Acorns of the white oak group wilt become “rubbery” when they are partly dried; red oak acorns do not. When dried, white oak acorns are very hard, like corn, while red oak acorns are softer, like wheat. Boiled white oak acorns never become as soft as boiled red oak acorns. Obviously, there are significant physical differences between the two groups of acorns. In the white oak group, the tannins are still there; you just don’t taste them as much.

6. Deer, turkeys, and squirrels do not “eat up all the white oak acorns and then move on to red oaks” as hunters and others frequently claim. It appears that this is what happens simply because the white oak acorns fall first, and because they sprout immediately after falling. Of course they will be eaten first. White oak acorns, upon sprouting, become unavailable and/or lose nutritional value. They do not store well like other nuts, so squirrels eat them immediately and store other kinds. The main consumers of acorns, however, are deer. Deer die when their teeth wear out. They like to eat acorns before they sprout because the sprouts (roots go down first) have much clinging dirt and sand, which wears down teeth. Red oak acorns remain perfectly intact until spring, so it makes sense for animals to eat them later regardless of preference. As far as I have seen, nobody has presented any real evidence that any game animals have any preference for acorns of the white oak group over those of the red oak. Studies have shown, however, that gray squirrels prefer the acorns of red oak to those of other oaks (Allen Lewis, American Midland Naturalist 107).

There are two significant reasons that deer, bears, and other animals might prefer acorns of the red oak group: they are higher in calories, and their softer structure would make them easier to digest. I have pretty clear evidence that, at least under some circumstances, this is the case. A few years ago, I gathered acorns in a particular forest on September 28. There was a very heavy crop of both red and white oak acorns, but the red oak was a much less common tree in the area. I picked white oak acorns because they were beginning to sprout. I returned on November 1 to gather red oak acorns. To my surprise, the ground was still covered with white oak acorns, but every last red oak acorn was gone. There is no explanation for this except that the deer preferentially chose red oak acorns over those of white oak.

The moral of this is that deer do not choose what to eat according to what tastes good to humans. Also, a human eating a wild crop pays much keener attention to that crop than anybody who does not eat it can possibly imagine. If you are planning on planting oaks for wildlife, a mixture of species is the best, but red oak."

Sorry for the long post! / Oakseeds
 
I have a few pin oaks in my backyard and see the deer eat them late in the winter. Surprised me because I figured that was last on the list. I've also heard Burr oaks are high in demand, when they're around that is.

I have a bunch of sawtooth that they cobble up like crazy. But I thought sawtooth were in the red family?
 
http://members.efn.org/~finnpo/indigenia/samprice.html

I googled "As one who processes and eats 15-30 gallons of acorns annually" and bingo. Google is a wonderful thing.
That is excellent info I haven't seen before. Thx.

https://www.amazon.com/Natures-Gard...id=1470324622&sr=1-1&keywords=nature's+garden
I didn't recognize the name until I checked this which I read a year ago. Thayer knows his stuff. He has great info on picking good acorns. He said of all the acorns tanoak was the best for humans.
 
I know here the post oaks are dead last on order of preference. Red oaks are only behing chinquapin and white oaks but only while the other 2 are actively dropping. Once they stop actually dropping acorns the deer move right onto the reds and our white oaks either rot on the ground or germinate. I have thousands upon thousands of germinated white oak seedlings throughout our property that just need to be released!
Let me guess Okie, your woman is too pretty, your car is too fast and you got too much money as well!:D "thousands and thousands of white oak seedlings" sounds like paradise to me - and I've seen the deer you shoot! Just giving you a hard time....not a bad problem to have from my perspective. The critters cleanup acorns at my place pretty quickly. I mostly have burr and chinkapin and northern red's.....I have 1 actual true white oak that I am aware of. I plan on picking some off that tree this year and planting them in areas where my logging has opened up the sky and we will see how that goes.
 
Let me guess Okie, your woman is too pretty, your car is too fast and you got too much money as well!:D "thousands and thousands of white oak seedlings" sounds like paradise to me - and I've seen the deer you shoot! Just giving you a hard time....not a bad problem to have from my perspective. The critters cleanup acorns at my place pretty quickly. I mostly have burr and chinkapin and northern red's.....I have 1 actual true white oak that I am aware of. I plan on picking some off that tree this year and planting them in areas where my logging has opened up the sky and we will see how that goes.
Well let me see now...my wife is definitely beautiful to me...My car can never be fast enough but I am creeping up on it...the money deal is definitely blue collar so I have to supplement by using my 38 hp tractor and brushhog weekend's and evenings...o_O

White oak seedlings everywhere is because white oaks are more resistant to oak Wilt and we were lucky enough to purchase before someone came in and logged them all out because white oak is prime right now. I have noticed white oaks here and on our deer lease both are hit heavily while actively falling but once they stop falling the deer leave them and the reason why was given by Oakseeds post above. Since they aren't being eaten they germinate but are under a closed canopy so they don't do much. Our deer density is so low they are not browsed.:(

I plan to open up the canopy on a bunch of areas next winter to see what happens! My autumn Olive type nemesis on our place is hickory. None will be safe from my saw or herbicide:mad:

Good luck on getting more white oaks going on your place!

08df8964c5df81ce5c5a936cfe21a428.jpg
 
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Well let me see now...my wife is definitely beautiful to me...My car can never be fast enough but I am creeping up on it...the money deal is definitely blue collar so I have to supplement by using my 38 hp tractor and brushhog weekend's and evenings...o_O

White oak seedlings everywhere is because white oaks are more resistant to oak Wilt and we were lucky enough to purchase before someone came in and logged them all out because white oak is prime right now. I have noticed white oaks here and on our deer lease both are hit heavily while actively falling but once they stop falling the deer leave them and the reason why was given by Oakseeds post above. Since they aren't being eaten they germinate but are under a closed canopy so they don't do much. Our deer density is so low they are not browsed.:(

I plan to open up the canopy on a bunch of areas next winter to see what happens! My autumn Olive type nemesis on our place is hickory. None will be safe from my saw or herbicide:mad:

Good luck on getting more white oaks going on your place!
All in good fun! It's great you have the oak regen you do - and yes hickory can be a pain. Most folks would kill for that sort of oak regen. We all have our issue with our properties - I was just giving you a hard time. On my place I cut down a hard maple and 100 come to the funeral!
 
All in good fun! It's great you have the oak regen you do - and yes hickory can be a pain. Most folks would kill for that sort of oak regen. We all have our issue with our properties - I was just giving you a hard time. On my place I cut down a hard maple and 100 come to the funeral!
Lol, I know...

On the funeral deal that is exactly what happens with hickory here :cool:
 
Lol, I know...

On the funeral deal that is exactly what happens with hickory here :cool:

Okie I will say this - seeing a pic like that would make me feel a lot more comfortable cutting a few of the larger oaks. I would monitor them a few years and see which ones really produce acorns for you and which ones don't and the ones that don't may be ones on the "cut list".

Sort of like trading a veteran ball player in the tail end of his career for a handful of good young prospects.....

My place has gotten better about oak regen with my logging efforts, but it's nothing like what your showing in your pic. That is just awesome.

Oh - and I did notice the hickory in your pic as well!:D
 
Okie I will say this - seeing a pic like that would make me feel a lot more comfortable cutting a few of the larger oaks. I would monitor them a few years and see which ones really produce acorns for you and which ones don't and the ones that don't may be ones on the "cut list".

Sort of like trading a veteran ball player in the tail end of his career for a handful of good young prospects.....

My place has gotten better about oak regen with my logging efforts, but it's nothing like what your showing in your pic. That is just awesome.

Oh - and I did notice the hickory in your pic as well!:D

I had thought about it but almost everyone of them are good producers...

c1ce9d573d7ca369c086c2be150b1ed6.jpg


a945f1d52c3a449c2cc4787c07c1e0e6.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I had thought about it but almost everyone of them are good producers...

c1ce9d573d7ca369c086c2be150b1ed6.jpg


a945f1d52c3a449c2cc4787c07c1e0e6.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Okie.....your starting to cause me to develop some "man envy"......
"I got too many young oak trees", "I can't cut the big ones because they all produce so well",

How would like to be punched in the nose!:p:D

Honestly many folks would be thrilled to have those sort of "problems"........

If you truly have that many that produce - that then means you can pick and chose which ones to cut that best fit your habitat plan and hunting efforts. Like I said, nice problems to have. Now stop posting pictures......I'm starting to really not like you!:D
 
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