A question about shaded food plot areas.

[Jack Terpack]

I had the opportunity to visit an old friend that I haven't seen in years. He bought a piece of property near the North Carolina border and invited me to walk it with him.

The one question he had that kinda stumped me was about his plots. All of his property flows from south to north. It is fairly flat,, but the slopes are all north facing. Even today at noon, they did not get very good sunlight. He asked me for seasonal recommendations for a crop rotation. During the summer is not a real problem because of the better sunlight but this time of year, and even in early fall, areas of the plots don't do real well. He had leased the land for about 5 years before the owner decided to sell it. Any recommendations? He has about 40 acres of plots that have been in use for about 4 years. The largest is about 12 acres and a couple in the 5-8 acres range. The rest are one acre and less. All of the plots can be worked with his tractor and he does have a pretty good assortment of accessories for it. He's hemming and hawing about buying a no-till drill but hasn't pulled the trigger yet. I heartily recommended he buy one so that I can show him what a great friend I am and test it out for him here at home.

 

[Triple C]

Jack - Sounds like your buddy has him one fine piece of property! How many total acres? I can't imagine 40 acres of food plots. I'd go broke. For me, it there's shade involved I'm going with perennial clover. But...I'm a clover guy anyway. I find it does great in filtered sunlight and feeds deer most of the year. Come fall, just add grain of choice n call it a day. For the larger plots I'd have to give a summer mix a go.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Wow, he must have a lot of land to have 40 acres in plots! By all means, he needs a 15' notill drill and a new 100 hp John Deere with cab and 4wd for him and his buddies to use. Seriously, nothing grows well in the middle of the winter for most of us, so the weather might be as much of a factor as the shading. Winter wheat or rye is great cold season crops that should do well on a 1 acre plot. In the summer my ladino clover does better in 1 acre partially shaded plots than in big fields, then I notill some rye or brassica into parts of those plots for the winter. So, yes, I have a drill and it sounds like he needs one as well, it would open up many more options for him. For three quarters of the year if I have a field that's not growing well I have the option to quickly drill a soil builder mix that's appropriate for that particular season into it and have at least something green growing within a week.

 

[Jack Terpack]

The total acreage is 315 acres. It used to be used as summer range for cattle. There haven't been any cattle on it for at least ten years though. It is not so much shaded as it is sloping steeply enough that it gets very little direct sunlight throughout most of the day. While I was there it was high noon and a clear day and we were casting shadows for many yards. Direct sunlight is a max of about 4 hours per day. During summer months he gets pretty danged good hay off the larger areas but only on the first cut. Tractor wise, he has a couple big old John Deere tractors and a small dozer. He is not lacking equipment or abilities. He was just a weekend deer hunter until he retired about 10 years ago. Now he is as fanatical as I am about deer hunting. His son hunts also but lives 8 hours away. He has a couple friends that hunt regularly with him and they are now learning to be more selective in what they harvest. I didn't get much time to walk the woods but most of it is mature and pretty open underneath. I suggested getting someone to look at it for a very selective thinning to open up the canopy somewhat. I tried to get him to sign up on this forum but he doesn't have a computer and doesn't want one. He doesn't even have a cell phone. My kinda guy.

 

[Mennoniteman]

So you're saying the fields are pretty steep? My experience is that a flat field does way better than a sloping field, water runoff tends to take nutrients and minerals along with it. If fields are sloped notill is definitely a must.

 

[Native Hunter]

With that much slope you will eventually get into erosion trouble, even if you use no till. If you have a fall when you get a drought right after you spray and plant, it can happen. If you have strong rains that winter a lot of erosion can happen quickly.

I would suggest that he only consider plotting the flatter areas and think about beneficial trees and shrubs on the steeper parts.

 

[cutman]

I agree with Native. You don’t need 40 acres of plots on 315 acres total. Don’t fight Mother Nature - work with her. Plant the best 20 acres then convert the rest to something else.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I agree with Native. You don’t need 40 acres of plots on 315 acres total. Don’t fight Mother Nature - work with her. Plant the best 20 acres then convert the rest to something else.

Great thought cutman; convert the rest to native grasses and shrubs for hillside bedding areas.

 

[j-bird]

In my area the flat areas are for farming and the slopes are for the critters. The deer like the elevation advantage of a slope with a view in front of them....especially if they can do so with the wind at their back. If the slope is that great and struggles to get direct sunlight, it's going to affect the ground temperature and potentially soil moisture and that essentially reduces the growing season of that area. In farming soil temperature is everything as far as when to plant in order to get the most growth in a season. I would think he would be best off with cool season plantings and obviously if it's on a slope less tillage the better....or even perennials in the worst locations. If these slopes are significant enough you could see micro climates and very different plants and the like in these areas simply because they are adapted better to those conditions. For plotting on these north facing slopes....I would think you would be better off with cool season plantings and the less tillage the better. He may need to alter his planting dates and the like as well to adjust for potential soil temperature differences. Just my 2 cents worth....

 

[Jack Terpack]

In my area the flat areas are for farming and the slopes are for the critters. The deer like the elevation advantage of a slope with a view in front of them....especially if they can do so with the wind at their back. If the slope is that great and struggles to get direct sunlight, it's going to affect the ground temperature and potentially soil moisture and that essentially reduces the growing season of that area. In farming soil temperature is everything as far as when to plant in order to get the most growth in a season. I would think he would be best off with cool season plantings and obviously if it's on a slope less tillage the better....or even perennials in the worst locations. If these slopes are significant enough you could see micro climates and very different plants and the like in these areas simply because they are adapted better to those conditions. For plotting on these north facing slopes....I would think you would be better off with cool season plantings and the less tillage the better. He may need to alter his planting dates and the like as well to adjust for potential soil temperature differences. Just my 2 cents worth....

I talked with hm last night and basically told him exactly what you recommend. He doesn't till these areas at all anyhow so that is no problem. He has been doing T&M for the most part but has been getting rather poor results. The hills are steep enough, but no so much so that I would be concerned with running a tractor across them. He is still up in the air about getting a no-till drill. I told him to contact his local state AG dept and see if they have one to rent. He almost had a heart attack when he priced them. I reminded him that it's only money and he can always print more. The soil looks good. We dug about a foot down and had deep rich looking a feeling soil but I recommended a soil test. In that area, he probably needs a lot of lime. He wants to keep the two larger fields as plots but is thinking about letting most of the really small ones grow up for bedding areas. I even recommended that if he wants to continue T&M, he should run a cultipacker over it after he mows it to get better soil contact. He had never heard of crimping instead of mowing so he's going to look into that also. The cool season crops might just be his ticket overall though.

 

[Jeff H]

What about doing little or nothing with those areas and let Mother Nature grow what is already in the seed bank. Maybe mow strips in it ?

 

[dogghr]

Problem isn’t north facing slope, not so much steepness of terrain. North slope in the heat of a southern state could be a good thing. Steepness? I wouldn’t be able plant anything if that was a real issue.
The problem was given away in the second post. It was a viable cattle farm and to this day he is cutting “good hay” off it. His issue is he has a damn great typical grazing crop of fescue. It won’t allow anything to grow in its deep monoculture root system and shades anything else and allopathic to new plants. Spray the crap out of it with 2.5 qts of gly / ac and pray one treatment will do it. Doubt it does. Then he can till, or broadcast plant a mixture of grains and clovers and brassica in some sections, and allow native shrubs to recover others. yearly breaking the fescue cycle and develope good attraction for deer. He can buy any high dollar equipment he desires, but until that fescue is destroyed, he doesn’t stand a chance. I know.
Native might even post a pic for him of the stone celebrating the developement of Kentucky fescue.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Substitute coastal bermuda for fescue in the above post and you describe my world in east texas

bill

 

[Native Hunter]

Problem isn’t north facing slope, not so much steepness of terrain. North slope in the heat of a southern state could be a good thing. Steepness? I wouldn’t be able plant anything if that was a real issue.
The problem was given away in the second post. It was a viable cattle farm and to this day he is cutting “good hay” off it. His issue is he has a damn great typical grazing crop of fescue. It won’t allow anything to grow in its deep monoculture root system and shades anything else and allopathic to new plants. Spray the crap out of it with 2,5 qts of gly / ac and pray one treatment will do it. Doubt it does. Then he can till, or broadcast plant a mixture of grains and clovers and brassica in some sections, and allow native shrubs to recover others. yearly breaking the fescue cycle and develope good attraction for deer. He can buy any high dollar equipment he desires, but until that fescue is destroyed, he doesn’t stand a chance. I know.
Native might even post a pic for him of the stone celebrating the developement of Kentucky fescue.

I thought you would never ask. I'm so proud to do this for you:

 

[Jack Terpack]

Problem isn’t north facing slope, not so much steepness of terrain. North slope in the heat of a southern state could be a good thing. Steepness? I wouldn’t be able plant anything if that was a real issue.
The problem was given away in the second post. It was a viable cattle farm and to this day he is cutting “good hay” off it. His issue is he has a damn great typical grazing crop of fescue. It won’t allow anything to grow in its deep monoculture root system and shades anything else and allopathic to new plants. Spray the crap out of it with 2,5 qts of gly / ac and pray one treatment will do it. Doubt it does. Then he can till, or broadcast plant a mixture of grains and clovers and brassica in some sections, and allow native shrubs to recover others. yearly breaking the fescue cycle and develope good attraction for deer. He can buy any high dollar equipment he desires, but until that fescue is destroyed, he doesn’t stand a chance. I know.
Native might even post a pic for him of the stone celebrating the developement of Kentucky fescue.

That is the one thing I had not thought about. I'll get with him tomorrow and see if he's up for it. He doesn't like herbicides but it might be necessary in order to succeed in his overall plan.

 

[dogghr]

I thought you would never ask. I'm so proud to do this for you:

Thankyou. You are so predictable if you were a buck you be taken opening day. LOL

That is the one thing I had not thought about. I'll get with him tomorrow and see if he's up for it. He doesn't like herbicides but it might be necessary in order to succeed in his overall plan.

Fire is an excellent non chemical option. But Natives hero, my nemesis, can be a persistent aggravation.

 

[Creek chub]

I have a 1/2 partially shaded plot that I can’t get equipment to. First attempt at growing something there last fall and had a busted attempt mainly due to the drought. Gonna put out some whitetail institute No Plow tomorrow to get something growing. It had annual rye grass and not my preference but I can hopefully gly that it the late summer and overseed with winter rye and crimson clover