My fence project

Awesome. I am happy for you, sounds like you have it happening. You're proving my point.

Once you have a browse line, get ready, you'll have one for years.
 
Swat, I find it incredible that the area Bull has his land in has any deer at all judging from the limited pictures posted of his woods. There just doesn't seem to be any food or cover left there for winter. Yet he has excellent hunting with quality deer and apparently a high deer population in his area. The thing I find so incredible is that this happens in zone 4 I believe. The amount of deer they have reportedly have there would result in an absolute crash here in at least one of every four or five winters. It just shows how each area is so different.

Now I hear you seeing 8 to 10 deer a sit and occasionally 20 to 25 and some of them being truly trophy deer. And you don't even have a browse line! I don't question your statement at all but can tell you that would be simply impossible here. Each of our areas are so different. Your area must be truly remarkable though.
 
Awesome. I am happy for you, sounds like you have it happening. You're proving my point.

Once you have a browse line, get ready, you'll have one for years.

And worse here Bull, after the browse line came the invasive plants dominating some parts of most properties. As I drove home from my cottages tonight I could not help but notice that the properties with the most deer and the history of having the most deer HAD THE MOST INVASIVES. It was hands down obvious even while driving the car.
 
I have about 5 acres with buckhorn bad(makes awesome deer habitat though) and have found a little mustard. Other than that I am good with evasive so far

I actually reviewed my cutting /new mfl plans today with my consulting forester. He found two areas about 3-4 acres with poor productivity. We are going to clear cut them and plant norways. I am jacked. More diversity, thermal cover and another project.
 
Do the poor productivity areas that are going to be clear cut have invasives growing in them now? If so, I would make an effort to eliminate all you can before you proceed with the clear cut. Otherwise, you are setting the table for an explosion of existing invasives. Just as Chainsaw noted above, areas with high deer densities will browse and kill all the "preferable" regen and promote the invasives, (exotic and native) such as Buckthorn, Box Elder, Garlic Mustard, Ironwood, Japanese Barberry and a long list of others. I assume your Forester already addressed this if invasives are in fact present in the understory.
 
These areas don't have much if any invasives unless witch hazel is considered invasive? I have ironwood sprinkled through the farm, a little buckhorn (although I like that- high stem count deer areas) and some newly discovered garlic mustard.

My goal is deer habitat not timber profits. Obviously I don't want to harm the land either. My biggest habitat gap is thermal cover and bedding areas. These norway pockets will improve the diversity of my property.
 
Bull, its not about timber values or harming the land for me;its about harming the deer habitat. Take Buckthorn for example. It really only fits one habitat niche and that would be over head cover in non winter periods. It does not hide fawns at all, It is hardly browsed even in the worst of winters at least here, it shades the ground and thus eliminates existence of plants deer actually eat, it does produce a berry that is heavily fed on by deer here around the first week of December but I'm unable to find where the berries have much if any nutrition. And a buckthorn stand once established completely inhibits plant diversity.
The deer do use it to travel through in full canopied woods where there is minimal ground cover and they do enjoy bedding in it. I wouldn't call it deer habitat though;it just seems like it because the real deer habitat has been eliminated where the buckthorn dominates.
Make no mistake about it; these invasives are a huge deal, a huge negative deal! I can see the day coming here if it is not here already that the property with the least invasives will have the most deer. It will be or already is THAT SIMPLE..

So far in this area we have prickly ash, buckthorn, Multi Floral Rose and honeysuckle bush. In some woods ferns are taking over as well. The farms carry the deer from planting thru till fall but usually that's it. There are some farmers that still operate sloppily leaving a good part of their harvest in the field but there are more that leave a barren empty field behind them. The deer must eat and buckthorn, MFR and HS just isn't going to sustain them.

I'm allocating a good part of my time on my property to killing invasives, some of my planned projects will just have to wait. I think,no, actually I'm completely convinced eliminating those invasives is that important. Sure some of it makes awesome fall cover but if the deer can't find food hiding won't be an issue.
 
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Chainsaw you know I completely respect your point of view and support the critical need for habitat in non Ag areas but in Ag areas I see it completely differently

When I hunted in Iowa the woods was the worst I seen with regen and cover. Few trees, mainly grass and virtually 0 browse. Huge deer population supported by Ag. I've seen similar (not as bad) in Pike county. Acorns and Ag look to be to sustain a huge deer population
 
Chainsaw you know I completely respect your point of view and support the critical need for habitat in non Ag areas but in Ag areas I see it completely differently

When I hunted in Iowa the woods was the worst I seen with regen and cover. Few trees, mainly grass and virtually 0 browse. Huge deer population supported by Ag. I've seen similar (not as bad) in Pike county. Acorns and Ag look to be to sustain a huge deer population
Good point Bull, we don't have many oaks on many properties here. That could make the difference. The Ag though leaves very little except for a few sloppy guys who don't seem to realize how much they leave. Keep in mind Bull, I'm referring to what I see here and I've come to fully understand that what happens in this area does not necessarily happen elsewhere.
I rode with a combine guy when he was harvesting one of my fields. When he was done there were almost zero kernels left on the ground. On a corner he had missed a single ear of corn. He backed the huge combine up and retrieved even that one single ear. No not every farmer is that thorough but enough are here. I have seen the opposite kind of farmer that left huge amounts but he improved quickly.

As to Iowa, since it occupies planting zones 4 thru 7, could the zone you were in have made a difference. Or were you in the zone 4 northeast corner?

Anyhow what is being observed in this area this spring may be here only but make no mistake;this is huge AG country and the condition described is in this area now and I'm not taking any chances. Its war on invasives on this property to begin with. So far except for Buckthorn I am behind most other properties in becoming an invasives only state. The invasives are seemingly suddenly making progress here in leaps and bounds.
 
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I have about 5 acres with buckhorn bad(makes awesome deer habitat though) and have found a little mustard. Other than that I am good with evasive so far

I actually reviewed my cutting /new mfl plans today with my consulting forester. He found two areas about 3-4 acres with poor productivity. We are going to clear cut them and plant norways. I am jacked. More diversity, thermal cover and another project.

Looking forward to seeing your progress here. I am in the same boat. I cleared four areas this spring and planted 4 or 5 pines in each opening. I have zero thermal cover right now but hope this will help in the future. The power company was marking a power line near my house for spraying/cutting a few months ago and there were some really nice sized pines growing there. I got permission to take all I wanted and transplanted them to my farm. Free thermal cover and they are all doing great. I'll add more pines to these openings as time permits.

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That's sweet. Nice sized trees

Some of you guys you might remember Popeyoung. He swears his thermal bedding was the biggest improvement he's done on his farm. He's one of the few that has spruce and his property kicks everyone's tail in the area. I believe in it. Sturgis prescribed many norways on my farm as well
 
That's sweet. Nice sized trees

Some of you guys you might remember Popeyoung. He swears his thermal bedding was the biggest improvement he's done on his farm. He's one of the few that has spruce and his property kicks everyone's tail in the area. I believe in it. Sturgis prescribed many norways on my farm as well

Much of what he said changed " monthly " on the last site he was on. I wouldn't quote anything he said as factual / relevant information......
 
I've been to his farm and know some of his direct neighbors extremely well. It's unreal what he has going. He's got deer like you can't believe and if you ask him it's due to thermal bedding.
 
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