converting old fields to summer plots....

[David]

New land owner, working on summer plans. i will link this to my land tour at some point, however i have a specific question, so i thought i would put it here.

Old fields....at least 100 years since forest covered them. over the years they were maintained as pasture, and more recently simply mowed every 2-3 years. The fescue mat is incredibly thick in places. the woody growth was significant. the ground is very difficult to break with my disc unless its recently rained, and even then it takes multiple passes to see soil.


i have a 70 HP tractor, a 2 row plow, a 9 tine chisel plow, and a 2 row disc.

what is the best sequence to turn 5 acres of this into bean fields?

the nieghbor has a drill and planter and i could probably hire him to put the seed in the ground, however i cant imagine that would be possible. if my disc has trouble getting trhough the grass mat and woody root systems, can they still be drilled?

My bigger plan involves elimination of the non-native cool season grasses through herbicide and presribed burn, however this is a dual track plan. i want to attempt to kill the fescue and manage these fields with fire AND put in a summer plot of beans.

my soil tests are soon to be delivered....the fertilizer and lime will be ordred, the beans are ordered, deer exclusion/repellent systems are still to be determined....i need help on "how to break old ground and prepare it for multi year use for summer bean plots."

 

[KDdid]

I'd think about a herbicide burn down before attempting to break ground-either that or try to turn it over with that two bottom plow and then disc it up. That fescue is not going to go without a fight.

 

[Triple C]

I'd think about a herbicide burn down before attempting to break ground-either that or try to turn it over with that two bottom plow and then disc it up. That fescue is not going to go without a fight.

X about 10! When green up begins, use herbicide to kill fescue and other stuff. Wait till about late June when the weeds really start to kick in and spray again. You'll be surprised how much easier and effective it is to disc that if the roots are dead, dead, dead. Had 3 fallow fields full of fescue, bermuda and weeds on our place when I bought it in 2011. Best advice I got was to kill the grasses with herbicide 1st before I did anything else.

 

[Triple C]

BTW...What State? Always helps to know where folks are from.

Update...Just saw it on your land thread - NC. I'd suggest adding State to the info in your avatar.

 

[David]

BTW...What State? Always helps to know where folks are from.

Update...Just saw it on your land thread - NC. I'd suggest adding State to the info in your avatar.

Thanks for the quick replies fellas. I am meeting the SC forestry commission on friday to begin the burn. I applied gly after the first few good frosts. After the burn I will spray again. This fescue should be very frightened right now!



Triple C. I'm in SC. Probably 30 miles from you as the crow flys.

Attempting to update the avatar....

Any more advice on breaking soil would be appreciated. I'm afraid of over doing it.

 

[Elkaddict]

I'd give the chisel plow a try first, then disc. I'd only resort to traditional plowing if necessary. We dealt with this 2 years ago. It was a lot more work than anticipated even with a heavy disc. We borrowed a chisel plow which really helped. I'd get the lime down ASAP--you'll have plenty of opportunity to work it in with what it's likely to take to break up the sod.

 

[David]

I'd give the chisel plow a try first, then disc. I'd only resort to traditional plowing if necessary. We dealt with this 2 years ago. It was a lot more work than anticipated even with a heavy disc. We borrowed a chisel plow which really helped. I'd get the lime down ASAP--you'll have plenty of opportunity to work it in with what it's likely to take to break up the sod.

Thanks EA


I just wanted to make sure no one was going to suggest drilling into this stuff.

 

[X-farmerdan]

Thanks EA


I just wanted to make sure no one was going to suggest drilling into this stuff.

If I had a no-till drill.....

 

[farmer]

With a no till drill I would definitely drill into it. Spray now with glyphosate and then hit it again with gly, 2-4d, and envive at least 14 days before plantng. Amazing what a nt drill can plant through.
If you don't have access to a nt, definitely spray and kill the fescue before attempting any tillage. Will make that job much easier.

 

[Scott44]

Did you ever consider a throw and mow plot? You can spray it wait until everything is dead and broadcast your seed and mow it. Here's a thread on it on here.
http://www.deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/throw-n-mow-thread.663/

 

[Elkaddict]

I don't know how you can make a no-till decision before getting soil samples back. In my country, those pastures could easily have a ph of 5 or less (mine was 4.8 in one of my 50 year old pastures). At least initially, I don't see having many summer plot options except buckwheat followed by rye in the fall with soils in need of serious amendment. If your soil samples call for many tons of lime, you'll be years having the lime take effect without working it into the soil. Hopefully, your soils are far better off so you'll have more options. Just my .02.

 

[X-farmerdan]

I don't know how you can make a no-till decision before getting soil samples back. In my country, those pastures could easily have a ph of 5 or less (mine was 4.8 in one of my 50 year old pastures). .

Good point. But, we can and we do. Here's my thinking. I'm assuming a 4.8 is rare. It depends on the OP's geographic location. Some soils have a naturally higher pH. Some are nasty low. If this was for agricultural production I'd be somewhat concerned about pH. However, I've seen good yield in soils with pH under 6. For food plots I don't think pH is the culprit we'd like to make it. And, I don't think the effort we go to to "mix" the lime in the plow layer is worth the effort. In a low pH environment, just the application of lime provides immediate and substantial benefits. I can provide the science. Second, without intervention, lime will move into the top inch of soil and raise pH in a couple months. Having a no-till drill actually makes the decision much easier. It eliminates a lot of the intermediate work.

 

[David]

Thanks again for the responses. I am in upstate SC (finally figured out how to update the avatar). Expecting the pH to read about 5.5 when it comes back from Clemson.


You can see here how much woody growth is involved. There is no doubt that i have a fescue problem, but i need to read up on how the "throw and mow" system would work with so much chest/head high growth. sweet gums, oaks, black berry etc.

I think my questions have been answered....I am going to finish my burn, spot spray left over fescue, hit it with the chisel, then disk it smooth. Then wait for spring green up and nuke it one more time. i am still a little nervous about how to handle the pH.

 

[MarkDarvin]

If it were the north and I had the tools, I'd spray that, wait two weeks, spread small easily germinated seeds, and then mow it down on top. You can grow one plot while you wait for the soil critters to eat all that duff.

 

[David]

If it were the north and I had the tools, I'd spray that, wait two weeks, spread small easily germinated seeds, and then mow it down on top. You can grow one plot while you wait for the soil critters to eat all that duff.

Mark tell me what you mean by easily germinated seeds. I'm always up for a little test food plot area.

Thx

 

[MarkDarvin]

Barley, turnip, rape, maybe buckwheat and sunflower. If you're doing it this spring, I wouldn't use turnips or rape, but barley and buckwheat instead. If you get that seed down while the duff is standing and then mow it on top, you should get a pretty good stand. Some rain would really help pull it all together. With the buckwheat and sunflower, adjust your rates for broadcasting and you should be fine.

It all hinges on a good layer of duff to cover the seed, and the seed being on the ground.

 

[X-farmerdan]

Expecting the pH to read about 5.5 when it comes back from Clemson.

[I am still a little nervous about how to handle the pH.

Nobody ever died over lime! If you expect the pH to be 5.5, lime it. Lime it when it works for you. Lime it so you get the equivalent of a ton-and-a-half per acre. Or, if you can't swing that, do what you can. If the nervousness is over applying lime and then tilling, apply lime and mix it in the soil. If that sounds too arduous and/or the timing isn't right a surface application will be just fine. The timing just isn't that big a deal. It should have been applied last week! Now that you missed the deadline, relax!

 

[David]

Nobody ever died over lime! If you expect the pH to be 5.5, lime it. Lime it when it works for you. Lime it so you get the equivalent of a ton-and-a-half per acre. Or, if you can't swing that, do what you can. If the nervousness is over applying lime and then tilling, apply lime and mix it in the soil. If that sounds too arduous and/or the timing isn't right a surface application will be just fine. The timing just isn't that big a deal. It should have been applied last week! Now that you missed the deadline, relax!

Now that you missed the deadline, relax!


Exactly what i needed to hear!

 

[Hunter_Dan]

For established sod, I burn whenever it's an option. A good burn makes it so much easier to till down the road. If it's green and growing, I like to spray with glyphosate, then wait 2-3 weeks for the vegetation to die and dry out. Then I mow/till a strip around the edge of the plot and light it up! We followed that up with a rototiller and it couldn't have been easier.

 

[Stonewall]

It takes several years to get 100% rid of that fescue...you really have to be aggressive and not let up.

On my food plots that I have been planting for the last several years, spraying manually with glyco 2 weeks before every planting (twice a year), I finally have gotten rid of it. But for the first few years there would be spots here and there that would pop up over the course of the year.

On the rest of the fields I had surrounding the food plots, I had it sprayed with a helicopter in Aug 2015, then burned in Oct, then sprayed again the following spring. There are still plenty of clumps of fescue shooting up...That stuff is the devil.