Amazing
- Thread starter Bullwinkle
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Bullwinkle
Active Member
All my point is
I would rather have good deer population and browse line than low deer and no browse line for my deer hunting land. I can always plant more food and Norway spruce for cover.
There is a reason good 40's don't last long in Waupaca county and land values are plumuleting up north where there is no problem regen oaks.
I would rather have good deer population and browse line than low deer and no browse line for my deer hunting land. I can always plant more food and Norway spruce for cover.
There is a reason good 40's don't last long in Waupaca county and land values are plumuleting up north where there is no problem regen oaks.
Jason Broom
Well-Known Member
...and that's fine, but you can't complain about the problems created by an excessive deer population while also being unwilling to employ known solutions to address those problems. I would like to lose about 40 pounds...but I would also like to have a bowl of ice cream tonight. I'm not going to complain about being fat, tomorrow, if I eat that datgum ice cream!
Bullwinkle
Active Member
I've never complained about the browse line. I only have 2 forties with it. I am doing the fence for fun and an experiment, it very interesting. Plus if it works I am going to seriously improve the bedding and diversity for the deer.
Until you turn the deer in on it...
Bullwinkle
Active Member
Okie - we will not do this till the oaks are above the browse line and will survive. I've seen these fences areas. The stem count is amazing. I am planting clusters of norways for bedding sites inside.
Bullwinkle
Active Member
I can't fix it so I a living with it
If I shoot just does more move in. Been there done that. The guys with the poorest habitat in the neighbor hood end up without deer. Doesn't make a noteable difference on mine
I am electing to deal with it. Plant enough food to get them through the winter and only take does when it makes sense to. Planting norways to reduce hardwoods and create bedding. The deer appear very healthy and have for decades
By not planting summer food I've also reduced the population considerably. The does don't seem to migrate back in as much as bucks in fall
I am not against shooting does just trying to be balanced and realistic on what I can control. We shoot all the does my group wants but only do it on the fencelines, youth weekend and Dec doe season.
I also have a lot of friends that pounded does and now don't have deer. What a sick feeling that would be. We have Bears, wolves and yotes increasing every year. So what if my deer hunting land has a browse line and the deer are still well fed.
Have you guys ever hunted Pike county or SW Iowa? My woods is a jungle compared to what I've seen there
If I shoot just does more move in. Been there done that. The guys with the poorest habitat in the neighbor hood end up without deer. Doesn't make a noteable difference on mine
I am electing to deal with it. Plant enough food to get them through the winter and only take does when it makes sense to. Planting norways to reduce hardwoods and create bedding. The deer appear very healthy and have for decades
By not planting summer food I've also reduced the population considerably. The does don't seem to migrate back in as much as bucks in fall
I am not against shooting does just trying to be balanced and realistic on what I can control. We shoot all the does my group wants but only do it on the fencelines, youth weekend and Dec doe season.
I also have a lot of friends that pounded does and now don't have deer. What a sick feeling that would be. We have Bears, wolves and yotes increasing every year. So what if my deer hunting land has a browse line and the deer are still well fed.
Have you guys ever hunted Pike county or SW Iowa? My woods is a jungle compared to what I've seen there
Jason Broom
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to castigate anyone too much for struggling with an excessively high deer population...my bestest good buddy, Dan, has the same problem in central Michigan. One year, he and his friends/family harvested 18 does from a 240-acre property. The next fall, while sitting in a tree during early October, he counted no less than 60 deer within sight of that stand, out around the edges of the winter rye fields. He has a hard browse line in the woods around his place, but there is only so much you can do.
Now, he doesn't plant food to help maintain deer populations at that level, but he puts in fall plots to improve his hunting success, and those probably add to the overall problem by resulting in more deer surviving winter. Each of us does what we can, but it is incumbent on each of us to also understand the situation we're dealing with and set goals accordingly. I've seen the results of aggressive doe harvest, including a monster of a 13-point buck that was harvested about 8 years into that effort. The end result was about 40% fewer deer, overall...and a much healthier herd. It took harvesting quite a few deer, mostly does, for nearly a decade, but man, did it pay off!
Now, he doesn't plant food to help maintain deer populations at that level, but he puts in fall plots to improve his hunting success, and those probably add to the overall problem by resulting in more deer surviving winter. Each of us does what we can, but it is incumbent on each of us to also understand the situation we're dealing with and set goals accordingly. I've seen the results of aggressive doe harvest, including a monster of a 13-point buck that was harvested about 8 years into that effort. The end result was about 40% fewer deer, overall...and a much healthier herd. It took harvesting quite a few deer, mostly does, for nearly a decade, but man, did it pay off!
George
Well-Known Member
Sure Doug these are the areas where deer have the potential to even make 150 generally speaking.
Okie you illustrate my main point nicely, leave the matriarchal hierarchy in place to achieve balance and social cohesion. You probably have one dominant doe with her two fawns controlling your whole 80 during fawning season.
If Bull took 80 acres and declared it his hunting ground and made the rest of the property family recreation, put his clover plots back in, designated sanctuary, and allowed a dominant doe to control that 80 as her fawning territory he would be seeing dominant bucks in the fall.
Iowa illustrates my numbers game theory nicely. Generous doe tags, late rifle season, plus outbreaks of EHD have caused a population decline to the point where the tv stars have been reduced to poaching to make their tv show.
G
Problem is my 90 is just a 90 and I am ringed with hunting camps that are mainly 10 acres apiece. I have not been able to identify any matriarchal does because they don't last long enough with all of the pressure. With firearms does are legal for 38 days every fall/winter and legal from October 1 to January 15th with bow.
What I think causes the great buck hunting is big woods (out of sight) and plenty of food in those woods with very few mouths to feed. 150" can grow here without AG.
My place is just about exactly opposite of your old place in Iowa...you were in ag country and was creating sanctuary and some food with your 80 and was surrounded by AG. My place is all big woods surrounded by more big woods. I am creating thicker cells throughout and offering some foods the deer can't get anywhere else. Acorns are king and we are going to be loaded down with them this year...
Bullwinkle probably would turn his nose up at this place because of not seeing 20 - 60 deer a sitting but myself I would rather see 1 or 2 a day if the ones I see are sure enough shooters than watch 20 - 60 I would never even consider shooting. When we are looking for meat only we drive over to home 10 and wack does in the high class browse line area where we can see 20 - 60 a sitting. I wish the neighbors there would kill more!!!
George
Well-Known Member
No, my 80 was more like your 90 than not. My 80 was 80 acres on a block of 3500 acres of ridge and ravine pasture land. I delineated my boundaries, fixed native habitat, brought sunlight to the ground, provided food plots, provided sanctuary, kept hunting pressure low, and let Queenie guard the place, much like you have done. Rest assured that the dominant does survive on your place just as the dominant bucks do that you get to see and hunt year after year.
G
j-bird
Well-Known Member
It isn't all about the ag either! It takes more than just food. My place is 2/3's ag field - and cover is the limiting factor here. There certainly is something certainly to be said about regional soil fertility, but that alone won't get you there. The deer still need the basic habitat requirements, and on top of that AGE is still needed if your managing for antler scores.
Food does you no good if the deer don't have a place to hide! You also have to consider the FULL nutritional needs of the deer on an ANNUAL basis just not seasonal. Artificially elevating carrying capacity on a seasonal basis will lead to habitat stress as those deer will need something to eat beyond plots and ag fields. This is where you run into browse lines, as the deer needs exceed what the habitat can provide. For healthy deer AND healthy habitat its all about BALANCE!!!!!
Food does you no good if the deer don't have a place to hide! You also have to consider the FULL nutritional needs of the deer on an ANNUAL basis just not seasonal. Artificially elevating carrying capacity on a seasonal basis will lead to habitat stress as those deer will need something to eat beyond plots and ag fields. This is where you run into browse lines, as the deer needs exceed what the habitat can provide. For healthy deer AND healthy habitat its all about BALANCE!!!!!
I recalled an aerial photo of your place and seems as it was AG across the highway...maybe I am mistaken...
Closest AG to me is about 40 miles...
Pacahunter
Member
Controlling an over population is just as complicated as promoting an under population. I am also a land owner in Waupaca county. I have attempted to shoot every single doe during every single hunting opportunity. I can and have eliminated every single doe from my property just to have a herd move in and just keep chowing. Than come hunting season comes, I literally shoot every doe, but the cycle continues.
The most promise I observed was the earn a buck years, but the governor outlawed it. I can only speculate to what extreme the DNR would have taken the population if EAB would have continued. It might have gone to levels the Minnesota guys used to complain about.
I can guarantee you leaving a queen doe won't fix bull's situation, if he really had a situation at all?
I am on many properties in Waupaca county, some places there is an insane overpopulation, some places the habitat is healthy. I've seen the drastic extremes in just a half mile. It sounds like bulls property might fit into that layout.
I don't think anyone could possibly understand the Dynamics of wi deer hunting if you don't live it. Bull doesn't consistently harvest old high scoring bucks because he doesn't have robust regeneration, it's because the old bucks aren't able to get old. I don't think someone from Iowa or Oklahoma could imagine just how many hunters are in the insanely popular areas of wi.
I hunted Iowa numerous times and have seen hunting get more popular in the area I hunted. Anyone who hunts that area will tell you the mega bucks aren't like they used to be, because they just aren't getting that old anymore.
The most promise I observed was the earn a buck years, but the governor outlawed it. I can only speculate to what extreme the DNR would have taken the population if EAB would have continued. It might have gone to levels the Minnesota guys used to complain about.
I can guarantee you leaving a queen doe won't fix bull's situation, if he really had a situation at all?
I am on many properties in Waupaca county, some places there is an insane overpopulation, some places the habitat is healthy. I've seen the drastic extremes in just a half mile. It sounds like bulls property might fit into that layout.
I don't think anyone could possibly understand the Dynamics of wi deer hunting if you don't live it. Bull doesn't consistently harvest old high scoring bucks because he doesn't have robust regeneration, it's because the old bucks aren't able to get old. I don't think someone from Iowa or Oklahoma could imagine just how many hunters are in the insanely popular areas of wi.
I hunted Iowa numerous times and have seen hunting get more popular in the area I hunted. Anyone who hunts that area will tell you the mega bucks aren't like they used to be, because they just aren't getting that old anymore.
Pacahunter
Member
Thank you for sharing you experiment bull, who is anyone to judge you on trying to accomplish your own goals.
It appears you are open and trying different things. It's your land which I'm sure you paid a good penny for. I'm sure many would fall out of their chair if they knew your taxes
It appears you are open and trying different things. It's your land which I'm sure you paid a good penny for. I'm sure many would fall out of their chair if they knew your taxes
Reason you have your issues is because some of the land owners are hoarding the deer. Just imagine if the guys around you did the same you are doing. Numbers would come down...
As far as thinking you guys have more hunters right around you just keep on thinking that...
As far as thinking you guys have more hunters right around you just keep on thinking that...
dogghr
Well-Known Member
Come on George, you know the attraction on your place was really the AO you were row cropping. I miss your movies.
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