Adding 2, 4-d to Gly for burndown

B

Brian

Active Member
I mowed my plots last weekend to let the grass and weeds start breaking down (I won't plant until mid-October) and plan to follow-up with a burndown in about 10 days. In the past I've just used glyphosate @ 2 quarts/ac. but some tough broadleaf weeds always seem to survive. I pretty much ignored the problem in the past - I disced until I had clean dirt and the weeds didn't really come on strong until mid-summer. I'm trying to conserve as much organic matter as possible so I'm planning on a "minimal tillage" planting this year, broadcasting rye and oats into the stubble and lightly discing them in and then overseeding brassicas and clover. As a result I need a better kill than I've been getting.

How much 2, 4-d should I add to gly for a good burndown? Do I need to cut back on the gly?
 
I think 2,4-d has a residual effect, I'm not sure how it is but I was thinking it hangs around for 2-3 weeks?
 
YES!! Always add something to gly to make sure you've got 100% kill. I would put 3oz/per gallon of water, and 10 gal/acre of water. The same rate of gly should work nicely. There is some residual but if you have 3 weeks before planting, you should have more than enough time, but it could depend on what youre planting. Small grains aren't a problem, some broadleaves could be though, I have a book that gives me the residual length for most any crop, let me know and I can check
 
bigbluetruck said:
YES!! Always add something to gly to make sure you've got 100% kill. I would put 3oz/per gallon of water, and 10 gal/acre of water. The same rate of gly should work nicely. There is some residual but if you have 3 weeks before planting, you should have more than enough time, but it could depend on what youre planting. Small grains aren't a problem, some broadleaves could be though, I have a book that gives me the residual length for most any crop, let me know and I can check[/QUOTE

I am thinking doing something similar next year. I have stayed about from everything but gly because of the residual. I am guessing brassicas would be a small seed and it would be ok to plant a couple weeks after spraying?
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bigbluetruck said:
YES!! Always add something to gly to make sure you've got 100% kill. I would put 3oz/per gallon of water, and 10 gal/acre of water. The same rate of gly should work nicely. There is some residual but if you have 3 weeks before planting, you should have more than enough time, but it could depend on what youre planting. Small grains aren't a problem, some broadleaves could be though, I have a book that gives me the residual length for most any crop, let me know and I can check
Click to expand...

So you're suggesting 1 quart each of gly and 2,4-D per acre? The reason I ask is that I've been spraying gly (alone) at 2 qts/ac- it has worked well but even that rate hasn't been giving me a complete kill!

I'm looking at planting rye, oats, brassicas (radishes and rape), annual clover and chicory - if you could check your book and let me know recommended planting delays that would be appreciated!
 
Let's remember, some of that stuff we're trying to kill is deer food too. At the start of my planting for deer I wanted my plots picture perfect, having been a farmer, that's how they should look. But the longer I'm planting for wildlife, the scragglier my plots look, I'm saving time and money, the deer are eating some of those weeds, and my OM is higher. I'm not opposed to chemicals, I've just discovered that when it comes to spray, less is more. Weed seeds aren't as much of a problem with throw n mow or no-till either, when the soil is not disturbed they don't germinate as much. I spray more for grass control than anything else, or if there's a certain weed that's taking over.
 
Personally save some money, add good dose of crop oil ( yea I know your gly prob already has surfactant in it), and AMS with your gly and I think you see a good kill of most anything. Put your AMS in your water first. Spray in heat of day or evening. Make sure you get good coverage even if you have go over couple times. 15 gal of water will cover ac easily with any sprayer.
 
Mennoniteman said:
Let's remember, some of that stuff we're trying to kill is deer food too. At the start of my planting for deer I wanted my plots picture perfect, having been a farmer, that's how they should look. But the longer I'm planting for wildlife, the scragglier my plots look, I'm saving time and money, the deer are eating some of those weeds, and my OM is higher. I'm not opposed to chemicals, I've just discovered that when it comes to spray, less is more. Weed seeds aren't as much of a problem with throw n mow or no-till either, when the soil is not disturbed they don't germinate as much. I spray more for grass control than anything else, or if there's a certain weed that's taking over.
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Fair point but Horse Nettle has shown up in one of my plots and I don't think deer will eat it. It's come back from a gly burn down last fall and really started out-competing everything else in June. It's gotta go!
 
dogghr said:
Personally save some money, add good dose of crop oil ( yea I know your gly prob already has surfactant in it), and AMS with your gly and I think you see a good kill of most anything. Put your AMS in your water first. Spray in heat of day or evening. Make sure you get good coverage even if you have go over couple times. 15 gal of water will cover ac easily with any sprayer.
Click to expand...
Yes if you add AMS and add crop oil it should kill everything. That's what I do and it works for me. However I use throw n mow and sometimes in the past I have not killed everything in my plots because a lot of the weeds we don't like are very well liked by the deer such as ragweed. I find that the less I spray the healthier my plots are.
 
dogghr said:
Personally save some money, add good dose of crop oil ( yea I know your gly prob already has surfactant in it), and AMS with your gly and I think you see a good kill of most anything. Put your AMS in your water first. Spray in heat of day or evening. Make sure you get good coverage even if you have go over couple times. 15 gal of water will cover ac easily with any sprayer.
Click to expand...
Just don't add any 2-4-d to this tank mix or you'll have a gummed up mess to clean out of your tank. I did it . I know.
 
I sprayed probably 100+ gal of AMS/Gly/24D mix this summer alone and never had a problem, Ill bet you mixed it in the wrong order, Ive seen it happen with things that work together when mixed in the right order, but mix it wrong and it turns to jelly.

Yes 1qt/1qt is a good go to mix for killing anything, never seen anything survive a proper dose of it. Theres some things like marestail that it doesn't matter how much gly you throw at it, there will still be some escapes, but my mix of gly and 24d and they die.

After doing some looking, I couldnt find anything in my book, but the Internet tells me that 2-4D has a half life of between 2-13 days, with the average being about 7 days. So you should be ok, maybe cut your 24D rate to a pint just to be on the extra safe side, brassicas and legumes are more sensitive to it than say rye or oats.
 
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bigbluetruck said:
I sprayed probably 100+ gal of AMS/Gly/24D mix this summer alone and never had a problem, Ill bet you mixed it in the wrong order, Ive seen it happen with things that work together when mixed in the right order, but mix it wrong and it turns to jelly.

Yes 1qt/1qt is a good go to mix for killing anything, never seen anything survive a proper dose of it. Theres some things like marestail that it doesn't matter how much gly you throw at it, there will still be some escapes, but my mix of gly and 24d and they die.

After doing some looking, I couldnt find anything in my book, but the Internet tells me that 2-4D has a half life of between 2-13 days, with the average being about 7 days. So you should be ok, maybe cut your 24D rate to a pint just to be on the extra safe side, brassicas and legumes are more sensitive to it than say rye or oats.
Click to expand...
Jelly is what I got. So tell me what's the right order?
 
bigbluetruck said:
YES!! Always add something to gly to make sure you've got 100% kill. I would put 3oz/per gallon of water, and 10 gal/acre of water. The same rate of gly should work nicely. There is some residual but if you have 3 weeks before planting, you should have more than enough time, but it could depend on what youre planting. Small grains aren't a problem, some broadleaves could be though, I have a book that gives me the residual length for most any crop, let me know and I can check
Click to expand...
What is the residual length with red clover and radishes?
 
TreeDaddy said:
So........

What is the recommended mix for 2,4-D and what is the order?

bill
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Put 64oz AMS in first, then 16oz crop oil in 25 gallon water per acre, then the Roundup and 24-D. I'd use 44 oz roundup and 16oz 24-D per acre, if you really want a total burn down. On shorter weeds and crops in ideal conditions, you can go half of this mix.
 
Here's a few tips on spray water that I posted earlier: Rainwater has a few minerals in it such as sodium and magnesium, but the thing that makes rainwater great for spraying is that it's acidic. Most herbicides that we use are weak acids such as: glyphosate (Roundup), paraquat (Gramoxone), bentazon (Basagran), clethodim (Envoy), sethoxydim (Poast), and 2,4-D. These all work much better with acidic water, which reduces the need for adding AMS to the mixture first There is another family of herbicides, sulfonylureas such as Permit, and Escort that aren't weak acids, and work better with hard water. If it has sulfuron, muron, or nuron in the chemical name it's one of these. But if you use AMS you don't have to figure this out, or use rainwater, you are covered either way..
 
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