3/4 Acre Plot

[Hightail0515]

I planted a 3/4 acre plot the 1st Thursday in August. I used a blend of Antler King Fall Winter Spring, Great 8, and Honey Hole. I checked the PH prior to planting, and it was at 7.

About a week to 10 days prior to planting I sprayed the weeds. The day of, I spread 150lbs of triple 19 then disc, dragged and rolled. Then I spread the seed blend then again rolled the plot in hopes of having good seed to soil contact. I went to check the germination and growth of the plot yesterday 8/19/23, and there was no growth at all. Between planting and checking the plot there was plenty of rain. What did I do wrong?

 

[Native Hunter]

How long after the day of planting was it before the first rain came, and how much rain was it? You say you have had plenty of rain since then, but could you elaborate on the timing of the rains and the amount each time?

 

[Hightail0515]

How long after the day of planting was it before the first rain came, and how much rain was it? You say you have had plenty of rain since then, but could you elaborate on the timing of the rains and the amount each time?

3 days after planting we had a nice day of steady rain. Not a down pour just a steady day of rain that should have provided a good amount of moisture to get germination. Not sure of the amount though. After that day of rain we had a few more days of rain and sunshine

 

[LetThemGrow]

What chemicals did u spray with? I have little experience with roller…unsure why you rolled before and after, how far into the seedbed did second rolling place the seed?

 

[Native Hunter]

So, it's been 13 days since the first rain and probably a few more days until another rain. Sometimes just a couple of rains will not be enough for germination when it has been extremely hot and dry. I say wait a little longer, and see what happens. Let us know in a few days.

PS - Our forecast right now is 15 days with no rain and temps of 98 degrees for several days. I hope yours is better.

 

[Hightail0515]

What chemicals did u spray with? I have little experience with roller…unsure why you rolled before and after, how far into the seedbed did second rolling place the seed?

Not sure how deep they went. It was a smooth roller from a plotmaster

 

[Hightail0515]

So, it's been 13 days since the first rain and probably a few more days until another rain. Sometimes just a couple of rains will not be enough for germination when it has been extremely hot and dry. I say wait a little longer, and see what happens. Let us know in a few days.

PS - Our forecast right now is 15 days with no rain and temps of 98 degrees for several days. I hope yours is better.

No, it rained 3 days after i planted then off and on after that.

 

[Native Hunter]

No, it rained 3 days after i planted then off and on after that.

No, my math is correct.

* The first Thursday in August was the 3rd.

* It rained 3 days after that, which is the 6th.

* From the 6th to the 19th is 13 days like I said............

* Saying that it rained "off and on" doesn't tell me much. It takes a lot of rain in weather like we have been having to convince seed to germinate.

Good luck with your plots. I'm done here.

 

[Hightail0515]

No, my math is correct.

* The first Thursday in August was the 3rd.

* It rained 3 days after that, which is the 6th.

* From the 6th to the 19th is 13 days like I said............

* Saying that it rained "off and on" doesn't tell me much. It takes a lot of rain in weather like we have been having to convince seed to germinate.

Good luck with your plots. I'm done here.

Native Hunter, I wasn't arguing nor did i mean to insult you. I just must have misunderstood you. When I said off and on. I should have said the saveral days that followed the 6th were a mixture of rain, fog and cloudy days. My apologies for not clarifying. Thank you for your input and help.

 

[Native Hunter]

Native Hunter, I wasn't arguing nor did i mean to insult you. I just must have misunderstood you. When I said off and on. I should have said the saveral days that followed the 6th were a mixture of rain, fog and cloudy days. My apologies for not clarifying. Thank you for your input and help.

No problem friend.

PS - There was one question that LetThemGrow asked that you didn't answer, and it's an important one. He asked what chemical you sprayed with. The reason for that is that some chemicals can have a residual effect. If it was only Gly (Roundup) then there should be no problem - but not so much with some others.

 

[Hightail0515]

No problem friend.

PS - There was one question that LetThemGrow asked that you didn't answer, and it's an important one. He asked what chemical you sprayed with. The reason for that is that some chemicals can have a residual effect. If it was only Gly (Roundup) then there should be no problem - but not so much with some others.

Clethodim

 

[yoderjac]

Clethodim

I don't fine cleth all that effective on mature grasses in summer. Depending on what other weeds were in the field that cleth won't touch, your seeds could be dealing with competition. Actively growing plants will also use moisture pretty quickly. This may or may not be the issue, but I find it much better to use a broad spectrum herbicide like gly or Liberty for burndown when planting this early. Just something to consider for the future.

At this point, I'd just wait to see what a little more rain does.

 

[MarkDarvin]

If you got hot on your cleth dosage, you may have injured or snuffed out everything you planted. I'm not a cleth expert, but there are warnings on the cleth label for brassicas and legumes, and the cleth residual likely got your grains. If you got enough moisture, I would suspect cleth injury took everything out.

 

[RGrizzzz]

Clethodim doesn't have any soil residual activity.

 

[yoderjac]

Clethodim doesn't have any soil residual activity.

Yes, I think the OP said he sprayed 10 days before he planted. Sometime we need to burn down a week or so before we plant just because of logistics. Personally, I prefer to burn down with Gly or Liberty within a day (or the same day) I plant. I don't like giving the seed bank a 10 day head start on the crop I'm planting.

I also wonder if the OP was using traditional tillage given the fact that he said he cultipacked both before and after he planted. I know when I was young and didn't know any better, I would often use a 2-bottom plow followed by a tiller. This would leave a very fluffy seed bed and cultipacking both before and after planting might be beneficial. With surface broadcasting, I've never seen a need to cultipack before planting.
Traditional tillage also results in a lot of moisture loss. So if he is in a dry spell, the rain may not have been sufficient if the soil had dried out that much. If you watch the "Ray the soil guy" infiltration video:

much of the rain he had may have just run off.

If he used a no-till method, then using cleth rather than gly or liberty could mean the existing plants consumed much of the rain quickly in a dry period.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Clethodim doesn't have any soil residual activity.

There's not total agreement on whether Cleth has residual activity but the Clethodim label itself says "DO NOT plant rotational crops until 30 days after application of CLETHODIM 2E"
There's been several studies like this one https://www.weedcontroljournal.org/article/residual-effect-of-clethodim-applied-in-corn-pre-seeding/ that specifically say "The application of clethodim 1 day before sowing adversely affected the emergence and initial development of evaluated corn hybrids"
My advice is to wait 15 to 30 days after useing clethodim to plant small grains since they are a grass type plant.

 

[KSQ2]

If spraying with cleth, which I rarely do when preparing for a new planting, I always wait the prescribed 30 days before planting, just to be safe.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I planted a 3/4 acre plot the 1st Thursday in August. I used a blend of Antler King Fall Winter Spring, Great 8, and Honey Hole. I checked the PH prior to planting, and it was at 7.

About a week to 10 days prior to planting I sprayed the weeds. The day of, I spread 150lbs of triple 19 then disc, dragged and rolled. Then I spread the seed blend then again rolled the plot in hopes of having good seed to soil contact. I went to check the germination and growth of the plot yesterday 8/19/23, and there was no growth at all. Between planting and checking the plot there was plenty of rain. What did I do wrong?

It was too hot, even with moisture it's tough to get seed to germinate or get anything growing in July and early August, especially if there's any soil exposed for the sun to heat up. Note that farmers almost never plant anything in July and August. Here's a firsthand case in point; during the first week of August I planted some lawn grass under ideal conditions with a thin mushroom soil cover, and watered it, plus we had several rains. In the shade of a nearby building the grass grew very lush, while in direct sunlight if hardly grew at all.
Timing for planting fall plots is always a challenge, it's a balancing act of getting them out early enough to get some good growth out of brassicas, but late enough that the seed will germinate, with timely rains in late August and early September being the big key here. My experience in zone 6 and south is it's best to wait till mid-August to plant fall plots, and I wait till Labor day to plant rye and oats. One way to get around the summer heat is to plant radishes and turnips in mid-June, then over-seed oats or rye in mid-August. This method has worked for me to make some of the the most phenomenal fall plots I ever had.
I predict that some of your seeds will still spout sporadically with a poor population, I'd reseed heavily over top of what's there with bin-run oats right before the next big rain to try to rescue this plot and at least have something to hunt over.

 

[Native Hunter]

I think MM has given some excellent advice above about planting times and possibly saving the plot with oats if necessary. However, I will also say that there is one exception about planting in late July or early August - if I can get a slam dunk forecast of solid rain for the extended,14 day forecast (on the Weather Channel), I am sometimes willing to plant early. I've successfully done it before, and even did one small plot this year. The one I did this year is thick and lush right now - but it was because of the incredible rains. If the forecast had been wrong, I would be looking at a weed patch right now of crabgrass, perilla, plantain and everything else that deer won't eat.

So, I go back to what I said in Post #5 of this thread. Even though he noted some rain, it wasn't enough considering the weather conditions. And, I hope his forecast is better than what ours looks like right now.

 

[MarkDarvin]

I spread some clay from a pond dig in early august. I'm way up north, like 5 weeks away from first frost at this point. That being said, I was still very worried about seed laying on the surface to bake. As soon as I had my dirt spread out, I gave a hot dose of gypsum to help mellow out the clay, and then sprayed on my seed. Then I covered it all in hay as an introduced thatch layer to keep that seed moist, covered, and to keep that clay from sealing up.

I'm glad I did, because I got a gully washer of a rainfall, and had that seed been exposed, it'd have all washed away, and i'd been left with new concrete.