I've sprayed my new place a few times, and each time I do it, I am terrified of what may follow. On non-wet areas, when I've sprayed, my situation has gone from native to horrendously glyphosate resistant enormous superweeds in one year.Anyone manage their stand without spraying? I hate to use the stuff quite frankly and wonder what it does to the deer and turkey and then me if I eat them. Any non-spray options?
Good questions. I have 4 fields about an acre a piece...I have a tractor, disk, spreader, bush hog, york rake. Right now I have a decent amount of clover growing in each but they now need some work...weeds...and I also want to diversify a bit in terms of what I plant.Sure. Depends on what your goals are. How many acres are you talking about, what equipment do you have, etc?
Very interesting. And I should have put in my opening question the whole issue of tilling too much and what it does to the soil. I disked yesterday a portion of 3 of my fields. I probably did a total of an acre. I'll re-do it in a couple of weeks to kill what's there which is mostly weeds. But the whole time I'm thinking I'm likely damaging my soil. Thus my original post. I'm at a loss. But this is interesting...you just keep it covered with what you want planted. But what do you do when you want to change it up or plant more annuals? Clover is the only perennial in your list I think?I've sprayed my new place a few times, and each time I do it, I am terrified of what may follow. On non-wet areas, when I've sprayed, my situation has gone from native to horrendously glyphosate resistant enormous superweeds in one year.
I've been working to eliminate the need to ever spray, and currently I don't own a sprayer or any chemical to put in one. I've had luck using heavy rental equipment to "create an opening" in the ecosystem with light tillage on first time plots. Then I immediately cover with cereal/clover/chicory/brassicas, and never kill it off ever again, not with tillage or chemical.
From there, if I can't manage it with a mower, I zap my plan, not my ground. I'd rather have less options and keep the ground covered than force something that has no business happening.
I'm surprised the habitat community hasn't evolved past glyphosate yet. We're at the point farmers were at 15 years ago. It killed everything at first, then there were escapes, then there were completely failed treatments. What followed were higher application rates (4x labeled rates) and endless applications to no avail.
I have not looked into that or considered it yet. I remember taking a stab at throw and mow and I failed miserably but I learned from here that I took a little knowledge and tried to apply it...not good. But I always thought spraying was a key to throw and mow.Have you looked at a crop roller? I think the “best” (obviously a subjective term) method for you would be to use a combination of “throw and mow” and a crop roller. You will have to get good at timing your field activities, get lucky with rain, and accept that your plots won’t be picture perfect beautiful, but I think it will work.
I have not looked into that or considered it yet. I remember taking a stab at throw and mow and I failed miserably but I learned from here that I took a little knowledge and tried to apply it...not good. But I always thought spraying was a key to throw and mow.
I like your thinking, I don't like chemicals either, I guess I view them as a necessary evil required for most notill systems, but total no-till and no herbicides can work with a no-till drill and a crop roller. However throw n mow without tillage or herbicides is much tougher, you need everything going right for crops to grow.Anyone manage their stand without spraying? I hate to use the stuff quite frankly and wonder what it does to the deer and turkey and then me if I eat them. Any non-spray options?
If you have really good soil, you can get away with abusing it for quite a while. I don't have that luxury. My topsoil is thin, I'm abnormally wet about a solid month longer than most, and probably 8" above growing cattails.Very interesting. And I should have put in my opening question the whole issue of tilling too much and what it does to the soil. I disked yesterday a portion of 3 of my fields. I probably did a total of an acre. I'll re-do it in a couple of weeks to kill what's there which is mostly weeds. But the whole time I'm thinking I'm likely damaging my soil. Thus my original post. I'm at a loss. But this is interesting...you just keep it covered with what you want planted. But what do you do when you want to change it up or plant more annuals? Clover is the only perennial in your list I think?
Ohhhh! Gotcha. Thank you for that!That’s where the roller comes in. You can terminate a crop with a roller instead of chemical.
Wow that is extremely helpful. I will give this a go and thanks so much.I like your thinking, I don't like chemicals either, I guess I view them as a necessary evil required for most notill systems, but total no-till and no herbicides can work with a no-till drill and a crop roller. However throw n mow without tillage or herbicides is much tougher, you need everything going right for crops to grow.
Broadleaf weeds in your clover aren't so bad, it's the grass type weeds that you really need to carry the fight to, and there's one really good option without chemicals. Disc the clover field in late summer until half the clover has disappeared, the idea is to see 50% dirt so the new seeding has some soil contact. With some types of dirt and equipment this might be one pass, some types it will take 3 passes or more. After preparing a seedbed, overseed cereal rye pretty heavy, 100 to 200 lb per acre. The clover will pop right back up for fall grazing, just add more clover seed if the clover stand was thin before you started. Meanwhile the rye will kill all the grass and some of the broadleaf weeds. By spring you will have only rye and clover growing which grow very well together. Terminate the rye at your convenience in early summer by mowing after the rye is about tall enough to set seed heads, or just let it go to seed and die on it's own. The deer won't have any trouble getting to the clover in the rye and you will have a weed free clover patch. Follow this plan every year for a perpetual clover plot.
Plowing for tillage is bad because turning over the soil kills a lot of beneficial fungi. Discing doesn't go deep enough to kill the fungi in the soil, so discing to several inches deep is an acceptable conservation practice if it doesn't lead to soil erosion, andis noted for your soil. The level of discing that I'm proposing here is supposed to leave enough rooted plants that erosion shouldn't be a problem. This system will also work for an oats or wheat and brassica combination but you won't have the allopathic properties of rye, and brassica often doesn't germinate well in rye for me.
Anyone manage their stand without spraying? I hate to use the stuff quite frankly and wonder what it does to the deer and turkey and then me if I eat them. Any non-spray options?
Ray is an excellent teacher. I highly recommend him. I've watched about every soil health, biology, chemistry, and cover crop seed video out there (winter was really bad here). If you're ready to invest the time, these are the three I'd recommend.YouTube “Ray the soil guy “and watch his videos or read his stuff. It’s a game changer from chemicals to planting choices to crop rotations. It’s no coincidence influx of certain plants into a plot. Once one accepts that and spends as much time analyzing why a plant is there as they do what chemical to use then a whole new world opens up. I’m not anti anything w foodplotting but we often make it way too complicated.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ray is an excellent teacher. I highly recommend him. I've watched about every soil health, biology, chemistry, and cover crop seed video out there (winter was really bad here). If you're ready to invest the time, these are the three I'd recommend.
Ray will teach you about what happens when you get your soil physics right and what happens when you get them wrong.
Keith will give you a good education on what happens when you get diverse plant mixes correct.
Forget the organic label on this video. This is a tremendous single shot of education that explains the relationship between sunlight, moisture, plant diversity, and the organisms that colonize the roots and the fungal interstate system that connects them.