White versus red or other clover?

[Creek chub]

If you had to choose a clover for soil improvement, what would you choose?

I have a few mountain land plots accessible by tractor and disc and I’m trying to get the soil suitable for perennial clover. I’m planting a a combo of sunn hemp, buckwheat, lablab and pearl millet late spring.

The ph is mid 5 or so. This fall I’m going heavy in winter rye and some form of clover, I like medium red and crimson and think both would help add OM and nitrogen for next summer’s planting.

I see some white clover options too. My local supplier has patriot clover in stock. Is this a good clover option?

 

[dogdoc]

You really can’t go wrong with either crimson or red with what you are wanting to do. The crimson is more of a true annual. It will over winter here in Oklahoma and grow very quickly early spring then fade away early summer where the red will last you all summer until you disc it in the following fall. So if you want summer forage then go with red or if you just want an early spring forage then crimson would be a better choice.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Clover seed is cheap for small plots, therefore I'd mix MRC with Ladino, the red will grow for sure and the Ladino should follow, and I'd be putting it out this spring with your other mix, I've done clover with just about that same mix, what you have there are taller plants and the clover grows as an understory plant, by fall you should have a nice clover plot, and seed the rye into that. And put some lime on that plot, ph should be mid 6 or so.

 

[Creek chub]

Clover seed is cheap for small plots, therefore I'd mix MRC with Ladino, the red will grow for sure and the Ladino should follow, and I'd be putting it out this spring with your other mix, I've done clover with just about that same mix, what you have there are taller plants and the clover grows as an understory plant, by fall you should have a nice clover plot, and seed the rye into that. And put some lime on that plot, ph should be mid 6 or so.

I picked up a 50# of MRC today at my co-op during lunch along with buckwheat and 5-25-25 fertilizer. I was pushed for time and didn’t get to get any ladino. They had Will ladino or at least I think that was the name. My last frost date isn’t until mid may to plant summer annuals. Is that too late to plant clover in the mix?

 

[Mennoniteman]

You can plant that mix on may 1st in Virginia, a couple of morning frosts won't hurt it. And that's ok to plant the red clover as well, with the companion crops it does better in the heat than planted alone because it has shade. Wow, 50 lbs! How big is your field? I'd plant only about 5lb to the acre with the other stuff that you are planting, so you can do 10 acres.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Patriot or Will is excellent white clover for deer, that has smaller seeds, I'd only add a few lb per acre if you're going to throw that in the mix.

 

[Creek chub]

You can plant that mix on may 1st in Virginia, a couple of morning frosts won't hurt it. And that's ok to plant the red clover as well, with the companion crops it does better in the heat than planted alone because it has shade. Wow, 50 lbs! How big is your field? I'd plant only about 5lb to the acre with the other stuff that you are planting, so you can do 10 acres.

My plots are probably 2-3 acres but I may overseed some pastures (15 acres) too. The 50# bag of MRC was $102. I’m not sure if that’s a good deal or not and it’s probably more than I’ll use right now but I can save it in the basement if I don’t use it all

 

[Mennoniteman]

That's a fair price. Overseeding pastures is more successful if you run a disc over lightly after spinning the seed, clover won't germinate without firm soil contact. The seed will keep for a season, but make sure that it's kept bone dry, like in a plastic container with a lid. Cool and dry with little temp fluctuation.

 

[Creek chub]

That's a fair price. Overseeding pastures is more successful if you run a disc over lightly after spinning the seed, clover won't germinate without firm soil contact. The seed will keep for a season, but make sure that it's kept bone dry, like in a plastic container with a lid. Cool and dry with little temp fluctuation.

Would a drag harrow work behind an atv to prep the pasture soil? My old 8N’s 3 point hitch will not raise my disc high enough to transport it. Right now I have the tractor stored at my cabin about a mile from the pasture I’m fencing in. It’s a shale based road and in good shape but it’s a slow and noisy ride pull the disc that far but it’s doable if there would be a noticeable difference between the disc vs drag harrow

 

[dogghr]

Cant argue with above comments but if it were me..... Id get that lime down pronto, Fert, and spread RC and grain now. Frost seeding now will give you decent results by late spring. Then fall Fert and do a fall planting of a grain and and more RC, oats, peas. Do fall rotations with grain mix and brassica alternating for a few years before seeding for a perennial plot. Success will be much better and a WC plot will last forever. Of course forever is a relative term to how long one might live!

 

[MarkDarvin]

I think your spring blend would get the job done. Do that and seed your perennial clover in the fall with some rye and I think you'll be fine. Should find a way to get some lime out there though if possible.

 

[coolbrze0]

Def. get some of that fast acting lime I had mentioned in the other thread (if you have smaller plots). We've got a few different co-ops around here & Southern States states has this for $160 so I'd say you got a very good deal on the Ladino Clover.

https://www.southernstates.com/catalog/product/p-5682-southern-states-will-ladino-clover-50-lb