When to throw in the towel?

[MarkDarvin]

This sounds like a good lesson in land rights and the folly of partnerships. You're always going to be vulnerable when you're a lessee or partner. Don't care how great anyone's partnerships and leases have been in the past. If you don't have absolute control as the sole owner, you are one death, divorce, or new partner away from a lost season and out a boat load of money.

Dial back your operation and buy your own land. I can entertain myself on 40. Until my buddies and family start writing checks, I'm not concerned with providing more. If you still have bad actors impacting your hunt, fence it, or buy some place else.

I would hammer the piss outta this dude that won't give you your money back. He's gotten paid twice for one season. If it was a couple hundred, no big deal. $8,000 and I'm gonna invest a few hours in collection. If he won't speak to you, it's cause he's completely full of sh*t and not interested in the truth.

 

[THE LLC]

The owner has committed fraud. Get a lawyer. A simple call to the Sheriff about theft might work. While you're at it, look into defamation. Just the threat of action against those guys will cool their jets.

Don't listen to those that tell you to just forget it. See if they'd forget you stealing $8k from them. In real estate, which a lease like this is, a lease of less than one year DOES NOT have to be in writing to be both LEGAL and ENFORCEABLE. Been there, done that, got the check to prove it.

 

[PineSapJunky]

His resources are a lot deeper than mine. Unfortunately the "good ole boy network" is at play here as well. Even though February will be 10 years since we've moved to Mississippi I am still and will always be considered an outsider. He is claiming that I "sub-leased" the land which goes against our contract. Another unfortunate circumstance. A relative of the district attorney for our county is one of the people hunting the land now. I'm still losing sleep over what to do.

 

[Drycreek]

There are many variables at play anytime you take someone to court. Pine has named a couple in his last post. It may work out for some, and there’s no harm in trying the cheap route, but I still wouldn’t spend much money trying to take this crook to court. I’ve had a few dealings with our criminal justice system and the crooks seem to have the advantage.

 

[THE LLC]

His resources are a lot deeper than mine. Unfortunately the "good ole boy network" is at play here as well. Even though February will be 10 years since we've moved to Mississippi I am still and will always be considered an outsider. He is claiming that I "sub-leased" the land which goes against our contract. Another unfortunate circumstance. A relative of the district attorney for our county is one of the people hunting the land now. I'm still losing sleep over what to do.

None of that changes the law. Any thing that said "subleasing" was not allowed? Were you not allowed to have members? Even so, keeping your money is fraud seeing as how the season had not even begun. You paid for hunting rights, he did not deliver.

 

[PineSapJunky]

None of that changes the law. Any thing that said "subleasing" was not allowed? Were you not allowed to have members? Even so, keeping your money is fraud seeing as how the season had not even begun. You paid for hunting rights, he did not deliver.

Oh I agree 100% to me the law is written in black or white. But the judges we would be in front of play favourites. If......if I could get in front of a jury I'm sure people's prejudice towards outsiders much less out of town folks would rear its ugly head. To give you an idea. We are the last county in Mississippi that doesn't have a red light in it. Plus I pay an attorney to represent me and we lose I'm out even more money. They know I have an uphill battle. As for members I've had them for 6 of the last 7 years or so. This is the first year I've had out of towners hunt with me which I think is what started the whole thing.

 

[PineSapJunky]

Furthermore they almost have me dead to rights. I've had multiple people approach me that in the case I let that lease go (which I was very seriously thinking about) to let them know because they were interested in it. The main reason why I let my friends from out of state pay to lease it was simply for the fact that they have the same mindset as I do when it comes to managing the land and wildlife. None of my neighbors show any restraint or give back in the very least to the wildlife and habitat. They just take. So yes in a way I was looking out for my own interests and tried my best to keep it falling in the hands of locals.

 

[THE LLC]

Sounds like you’ve made your mind up. If you aren’t willing to take up for yourself stop talking about it and run for Congress.

 

[PineSapJunky]

Sounds like you’ve made your mind up. If you aren’t willing to take up for yourself stop talking about it and run for Congress.

I'm still losing sleep over this. But I want to be realistic. Nothing makes me more mad than an injustice. I've got a couple calls out and I have a family member who is an attorney (just doesn't specialize in this particular matter) looking into the best course of action. I'd feel better off with just beating the guy when I catch him in public or at least confronting him in front of a group so he has nowhere to run and cannot backtrack on what has been said. But you stretch yourself by claiming I won't or I am not taking up for myself. There's other ways to get my money back in my mind then by a judge awarding it too me. But honestly it's the only way that's legal. These things can and will in this case take some time.

 

[THE LLC]

I’d really suggest taking the legal route.

 

[Turkish]

Did you have a contract or lease agreement? What did it say about subleasing?

Our lease in SW MS has always very specifically forbidden subleasing. Members are required to be named on the lease.

If you have nothing in writing, you have a really good chance of getting your money back. If you violated the written agreement, maybe not. Always need something I writing for these types of deals!

 

[OkieKubota]

Did you have a contract or lease agreement? What did it say about subleasing?

Our lease in SW MS has always very specifically forbidden subleasing. Members are required to be named on the lease.

If you have nothing in writing, you have a really good chance of getting your money back. If you violated the written agreement, maybe not. Always need something I writing for these types of deals!

Same here...

 

[THE LLC]

If you have nothing in writing, you have a really good chance of getting your money back. If you violated the written agreement, maybe not. Always need something I writing for these types of deals!

I don't believe you could EVER be forced to give up the $8k even if it was a violation of the agreement because it was discovered and dealt with before the season ever started IF it was in writing. Probably would have no claim to the hunting rights for it, but no court would ever award the $8k to the landowner. Had the season started, and then the violation was discovered, possibly, since the landowner was damaged by not being able to lease to another group for the whole season. If no written agreement exists prohibiting the sublease, then no violation has occurred. It's just like when we caught poachers on our hunting land in Nebraska 15 years ago. Our landowner let the guys pay him for the deer, so the State could not charge them for hunting without permission. Shooting from the road and no orange, however, were their undoing.