Wetlands and flood zone questions

[pinetag]

So I just put in an offer on a property that I discovered (after doing some research) is part wetland as well as minimal flood zone due to proximity to a small river. There is a single wide on the higher elevation part of the property that is outside of the flood zone/wetland so there is no concern about a future home site or option to sell to a future buyer. It has a well and septic too so those are not a concern either. Now to the questions I have, for those of you that own or have experience with these types of properties, are there any issues or regulations to be concerned with? Would i be able to modify the landscape or cut trees down/timber harvest? Create small food plots? It falls under the PFO1A designation if any of you are familiar with that. We will have a study period of 45 days so if anything is not to my liking I can back out. Just want some opinions from those who have experience with these types of properties.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[pinetag]

So I just put in an offer on a property that I discovered (after doing some research) is part wetland as well as minimal flood zone due to proximity to a small river. There is a single wide on the higher elevation part of the property that is outside of the flood zone/wetland so there is no concern about a future home site or option to sell to a future buyer. It has a well and septic too so those are not a concern either. Now to the questions I have, for those of you that own or have experience with these types of properties, are there any issues or regulations to be concerned with? Would i be able to modify the landscape or cut trees down/timber harvest? Create small food plots? It falls under the PFO1A designation if any of you are familiar with that. We will have a study period of 45 days so if anything is not to my liking I can back out. Just want some opinions from those who have experience with these types of properties.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Anyone have any experience with this?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[j-bird]

So I just put in an offer on a property that I discovered (after doing some research) is part wetland as well as minimal flood zone due to proximity to a small river. There is a single wide on the higher elevation part of the property that is outside of the flood zone/wetland so there is no concern about a future home site or option to sell to a future buyer. It has a well and septic too so those are not a concern either. Now to the questions I have, for those of you that own or have experience with these types of properties, are there any issues or regulations to be concerned with? Would i be able to modify the landscape or cut trees down/timber harvest? Create small food plots? It falls under the PFO1A designation if any of you are familiar with that. We will have a study period of 45 days so if anything is not to my liking I can back out. Just want some opinions from those who have experience with these types of properties.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Talk to your local NRCS office. They should be able to tell you if your state has any significant regulations regarding that type of property. It can vary from different states. I have a low field next to a decent stream that floods nearly every year. I am pretty much free to do what ever I want. It's a floodplain, but not a classified wetland. How the ground is legally classified will be the difference. In some states altering classified wetlands is a huge no-no......while in others it's not as big of a deal. Sometimes it depends on the size and other things as well. Your NRCS office should have someone that can look at the property and how it is classified and shed some light on the matter for you. do NOT do ANYTHING until you know what if any restrictions exist. Those penalties can be pretty significant.

 

[SwampCat]

I agree - get your nrcs out there. In GENERAL - you can cut the trees, you can plant, and things like that. Where you start getting in trouble is when you start depositing fill material. Even down To the point where If you dig a stump and fill the hole. But, my nrcs guy told me they normally exclude things like food plots. Get with NRCS

 

[pinetag]

Talk to your local NRCS office. They should be able to tell you if your state has any significant regulations regarding that type of property. It can vary from different states. I have a low field next to a decent stream that floods nearly every year. I am pretty much free to do what ever I want. It's a floodplain, but not a classified wetland. How the ground is legally classified will be the difference. In some states altering classified wetlands is a huge no-no......while in others it's not as big of a deal. Sometimes it depends on the size and other things as well. Your NRCS office should have someone that can look at the property and how it is classified and shed some light on the matter for you. do NOT do ANYTHING until you know what if any restrictions exist. Those penalties can be pretty significant.

Thanks for the advice. This morning I called the VA DEQ (Dept of environmental quality and they told me so long as I'm not trying to fill in the lowland for a home, road, etc then I should be good to go. He said getting the timber clear cut ( which I don't plan to do) might require a permit but he didn't think so. I could cut trees to create a walking/atv trail, shooting lanes, food plots without any issues. The only concern I have with the floodplain is I don't want some of my stand setups to be in 3+ feet of water for multiple months out of the year (especially hunting season). But based on my observation of the river, which is only about 20' wide and 3' deep with 6-7' banks, it does not look like it gets high enough to flood very often. There is a ton of vegetation growing all along the bottom which doesn't show any sign of being underwater. I do plan on calling the county to see if there are any zoning restrictions.

Here are a couple of river pics for reference...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[pinetag]

I agree - get your nrcs out there. In GENERAL - you can cut the trees, you can plant, and things like that. Where you start getting in trouble is when you start depositing fill material. Even down To the point where If you dig a stump and fill the hole. But, my nrcs guy told me they normally exclude things like food plots. Get with NRCS

Thanks. The DEQ pretty much told me the same. Do you work with some wetland property?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[X-farmerdan]

Wetlands issues are so contentious and confusing that there's an entire population of independent consultants for hire. I doubt you need any of them.

There are a number of incentives and restrictions available in Virginia. The Virginia Department of Environmental Quality is the lead state agency. They have a very informative and helpful web site.
http://www.deq.virginia.gov/Programs/Water/WetlandsStreams/Regulations.aspx

NRCS is a federal USDA agency responsible for soil and wetland conservation on private lands. Here in Virginia they deal exclusively with cropland enrolled in Farm Bill Programs. So far as NRCS is concerned you can do anything you want with your land until you enroll in any USDA program where you might expect payments. Then, you are bound by their conservation compliance requirements.
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/va/contact/local/

The Virginia Department of Forestry can tell you about timber harvests. There is a state tax credit for maintaining buffers around waterways. Talk to your local county forester
http://dof.virginia.gov/locations/index.htm

You local Soil & Water Conservation District office works to preserve soil and keep water clean. They have a much broader view of the situation, are local to your property, and are generally personable and knowledgeable. Call them. Make an appointment. They may have incentive money to help you improve your situation.
http://vaswcd.org/

Of course, local building codes and bank finance policy might inhibit building construction.

Bottom line, unless you are going to dredge, fill, modify, build on and involve the Army Corps of Engineers -- you'll be ok.

 

[j-bird]

Your river looks similar to my "creek" - More than likely it floods above the bank on occasion but not constantly. You will learn by observation over time. My floodplain does the same thing. It floods during the spring if we have a heavy melt and then rain....or anytime we get lots of rain at one time. It will flood quickly, but return to the banks quickly....at least mine does. Go look at the support columns on that bridge.....that should show you signs of how high the water gets and how frequently.

I have a ladder stand that had debris on it that showed the water came up a few feet. I know it's always a risk, but that is what it is. I however do NOT leave my stands up all year to avoid them from being damaged. The amount of vegetation you have also supports that it may flood on occasion, but not all the time. The good news is - a stream like that can be a great access point for hunting as it's low and quiet. I have even chained ladders to trees to help climb the banks to get right to my tree. I have also seen deer use a stream bed like a highway in times of low water as well. It's simply the path or least resistance and stream crossing are also great places to hunt.

Depending on the surrounding habitat of that stream you may be eligible for some different government programs as well. Certain CRP programs (if by chance you have ag fields near this stream) will pay you to convert so much to a permanent cover type and the like. Your NRCS office can help you determine if anything like that applies to your property as well. The one thing to keep in mind in a flood plain is you can;t stop nature. You simply have to roll with the punches. You may get plots flooded out, you may get plots turned into sand bars. There isn't really much you can do about it. My floodplain is a corn field and sometimes it's a total loss while other years it's a bumper crop.

 

[pinetag]

There are a number of incentives and restrictions available in Virginia. The Virginia Department of Environmental Quality is the lead state agency. They have a very informative and helpful web site.
http://www.deq.virginia.gov/Programs/Water/WetlandsStreams/Regulations.aspx

NRCS is a federal USDA agency responsible for soil and wetland conservation on private lands. Here in Virginia they deal exclusively with cropland enrolled in Farm Bill Programs. So far as NRCS is concerned you can do anything you want with your land until you enroll in any USDA program where you might expect payments. Then, you are bound by their conservation compliance requirements.
https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/va/contact/local/

The Virginia Department of Forestry can tell you about timber harvests. There is a state tax credit for maintaining buffers around waterways. Talk to your local county forester
http://dof.virginia.gov/locations/index.htm

You local Soil & Water Conservation District office works to preserve soil and keep water clean. They have a much broader view of the situation, are local to your property, and are generally personable and knowledgeable. Call them. Make an appointment. They may have incentive money to help you improve your situation.
http://vaswcd.org/

Of course, local building codes and bank finance policy might inhibit building construction.

Bottom line, unless you are going to dredge, fill, modify, build on and involve the Army Corps of Engineers -- you'll be ok.

Great info! Thanks. I actually put in a call to the NRCS this afternoon so waiting to hear back. I'm interested to know more about this tax credit for maintaining buffers around waterways?

 

[X-farmerdan]

I'm interested to know more about this tax credit for maintaining buffers around waterways?

If you timber.....
http://www.dof.virginia.gov/tax/credit/riparianbuffer/index.htm

 

[pinetag]

Your river looks similar to my "creek" - More than likely it floods above the bank on occasion but not constantly. You will learn by observation over time. My floodplain does the same thing. It floods during the spring if we have a heavy melt and then rain....or anytime we get lots of rain at one time. It will flood quickly, but return to the banks quickly....at least mine does. Go look at the support columns on that bridge.....that should show you signs of how high the water gets and how frequently.

I have a ladder stand that had debris on it that showed the water came up a few feet. I know it's always a risk, but that is what it is. I however do NOT leave my stands up all year to avoid them from being damaged. The amount of vegetation you have also supports that it may flood on occasion, but not all the time. The good news is - a stream like that can be a great access point for hunting as it's low and quiet. I have even chained ladders to trees to help climb the banks to get right to my tree. I have also seen deer use a stream bed like a highway in times of low water as well. It's simply the path or least resistance and stream crossing are also great places to hunt.

Depending on the surrounding habitat of that stream you may be eligible for some different government programs as well. Certain CRP programs (if by chance you have ag fields near this stream) will pay you to convert so much to a permanent cover type and the like. Your NRCS office can help you determine if anything like that applies to your property as well. The one thing to keep in mind in a flood plain is you can;t stop nature. You simply have to roll with the punches. You may get plots flooded out, you may get plots turned into sand bars. There isn't really much you can do about it. My floodplain is a corn field and sometimes it's a total loss while other years it's a bumper crop.

The bridge columns is a great idea! I will take a look. It appears to be a great spot and the shape of the river and creek that meets it essentially form a giant horseshoe. My thought is the deer will probably get in there and run circles during the chase phase. Hopefully the seller will accept our counter offer this evening and then i will get a better chance to do some more exploring. I did see some well used trails leading to/crossing the river, so that is promising. It just looks like the type of habitat that deer would feel comfortable bedding in as well as providing plenty of native browse.

 

[pinetag]

If you timber.....
http://www.dof.virginia.gov/tax/credit/riparianbuffer/index.htm

Ahh, got it.

 

[TheOldOak]

That river is about the same size as the one on my property. Those things are money for attracting and holding deer and many other forms of wildlife. Not sure I truly appreciated the extent of that when I bought my place, but certainly glad I have it now. The one that borders one side of my property only floods the banks in the spring normally and it only lasts for a day or two when it does. The water level goes back down very quickly. You'll also find that the deer cross that stream in the same spots, year after year. Great locations for a stand, almost like a deer highway!

 

[pinetag]

That river is about the same size as the one on my property. Those things are money for attracting and holding deer and many other forms of wildlife. Not sure I truly appreciated the extent of that when I bought my place, but certainly glad I have it now. The one that borders one side of my property only floods the banks in the spring normally and it only lasts for a day or two when it does. The water level goes back down very quickly. You'll also find that the deer cross that stream in the same spots, year after year. Great locations for a stand, almost like a deer highway!

That's what I'm hoping for! There are definitely some crossings that appear to be more heavily used than others and I will likely be putting some cameras at those points.

 

[j-bird]

Something I will comment on and maybe others have had different experiences with this, but I tend to NOT have deer bedding in creek bottoms. I have some areas in my flood plain where does will bed in some tall grasses and weeds, but for the most part the deer on my place prefer to bed above the flood plain/creek bottoms. I think it is more a function of visibility by the deer than anything, but I tend to get most of my bedding where the ground slopes up from the low ground. Like I said maybe others have a different experience, but that is what I see. So if that holds true you will want to ensure you have some higher ground that will be secluded enough to support bedding. Creek bottoms are great cruising and travel ways for deer, but hunting deer that only pass thru your property can be frustrating as you are at the mercy of neighbors and the like and things even further beyond your control. Streams and creeks are great for wildlife diversity on a property. I sat in a stand a few weeks ago and watched a mink and a muskrat in my one creek. I have also had wood ducks, herons and other wildlife as well. Just make sure you have enough other ground to be able to accomplish your goals. Good luck with the property purchase.

 

[pinetag]

Something I will comment on and maybe others have had different experiences with this, but I tend to NOT have deer bedding in creek bottoms. I have some areas in my flood plain where does will bed in some tall grasses and weeds, but for the most part the deer on my place prefer to bed above the flood plain/creek bottoms. I think it is more a function of visibility by the deer than anything, but I tend to get most of my bedding where the ground slopes up from the low ground. Like I said maybe others have a different experience, but that is what I see. So if that holds true you will want to ensure you have some higher ground that will be secluded enough to support bedding. Creek bottoms are great cruising and travel ways for deer, but hunting deer that only pass thru your property can be frustrating as you are at the mercy of neighbors and the like and things even further beyond your control. Streams and creeks are great for wildlife diversity on a property. I sat in a stand a few weeks ago and watched a mink and a muskrat in my one creek. I have also had wood ducks, herons and other wildlife as well. Just make sure you have enough other ground to be able to accomplish your goals. Good luck with the property purchase.

I agree and I kind of hope that's the case. My plan would be to hunt the exterior and create some potential bedding in the interior. A large portion along the river bottom is flat but there is some elevation increase as you go toward the middle as well as toward the north end of the property. Here are some possible locations but I would not act on them right away as there is more work to do with the single wide trailer, locating game trails and river crossings, creating atv trails, build a bridge over the creek, etc. that I want to accomplish first. Orange would be small hinge cut areas for bedding and green would be potential food plot sites. Purple would be new atv trails and gray is existing trails. Possible stand locations aren't in this pic but they would be spread up and down the western and eastern property lines.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[TreeDaddy]

Looks like a good site for a lake if one were so inclined....

bill