The "what the hell have I done?" moment is here.

Flo1919

Flo1919

Member
The logs are out of the woods. The Ash is on a truck to the mill and the Walnut is being scaled as I type this. They have pulled everything out that was a saw log that I agreed to cut. I worked with a NYS Cooperating Forester who I have great confidence in and a logger who has been respectful & responsible thus far. The EAB hit my place so hard that within two years the trees barely leafed out, the cut was inevitable. My observations of a heavy Ash stand is that EAB will infect all size trees and it just a matter of time. If you have Ash, do you homework and get it cut soon.
I walked the property with my wife last night and J-Bird was ringing in my ears as I kept thinking "what the hell have I done?" Its a pretty big mess. J-bird, your optimism & experience has also reverberated over the past 6 months as I have prepared for these moments, thank you. Many of the ruts are waist deep as I'm in a low lying wetland. The tops are plentiful and many are blocking what were gorgeous deer trails. I have more firewood then I could ever use. The logger is bound to "clean up" and the forester has secured funds until it is completed. I keep telling myself, trust that these guys know what their doing.
I'm looking for input on the actual clean up process and your experience with it after a cut. Does anyone have experience having a wet area cut and repaired? What about repairing monster ruts? The logger plans on using and excavator to help clean up. The forester will perform an inspection after the logger clean-up. He said I shouldn't go on the trails with a tractor or ATV for one year after they are repaired. After the logger clean-up, I'm looking forward to the rehab part but I will have some serious work to do along the way.
 
Flo - I'm glad my experience has helped you see a light at the end of this tunnel. If you went thru what I did...I literally almost threw-up. I really thought I had done damage that would take decades to recover from.

For clean-up. They should repair the ruts and the like with a track hoe or a dozer. Consider any culverts and drainage improvements you may be able to make as well. They will mostly grade the ruts out, but this can make the area around the now road/path higher and you will see some water issues. Staying off the fresh dirt will help reduce more ruts and allow the ground to settle more naturally. You could seed it if you want....either in a grass or clover.

As for the tops. You can cut some if you wish for firewood or simply leave it for additional cover. Over time they will breakdown on their own. Some will serve as exclusion cages for other plants as well as bedding and nesting sites as well. I cut some and then some that where in clusters I left alone as well.

When they are done there will still be evidence of their activity but like with many things nature will heal itself over time. The main thing to keep an eye on is that they address any potential soil erosion issues. You don't want them creating areas where water will collect and stand or areas where the water flow will be concentrated. Keep in mind....your the customer. Keep in mind if you want a water hole or two plot clearing and like I mentioned any culverts or the like to improve your access later. Take pictures.... You will be amazed at how well things will recover especially next year once you have a full spring and summer for the plants to recover. What looks like a muddy mess now will be a jungle of green in a year or two as long as you have the sunlight on the ground.

If the parties involved are respectable people they will do what they can to clean-up and leave things as reasonable as possible.
 
No amount of money would have heavy equipment rutting up my land in summer. I'd get ready to sue, cause waist deep ruts aren't going away without mining equipment.
 
I've had similar work done many times, so I can visualize what it looks like. It looks like a war zone that's been bombarded heavily. Just relax, this is normal and perfectly ok, you have just had a normal timber harvest completed and the woods will recover faster than you would think. The logger needs to fix the ruts and level things out, and generally would also seed the leveled areas with ryegrass, and your roads will soon be ready to drive on again. I've had ruts like that and it seemed like the road was permanently ruined, it firmed up and was level and solid again within months, until we did it all over again for the next timber harvest. The tree tops make great wildlife cover and rot down to nothing in several years. My biggest concern would be; what do you have left for seed trees? Hopefully there's some quality seed trees left for the reseeding process to start.
 
I've seen logging operations look like this---and most of the time they got left like that because the landowner only wanted money and could care less about the damage done. So, they didn't bother having the logger escrow the last payment to make sure the land got repaired. Then, I've seen them like my last one where I stayed on their ass like white on rice and had an iron-clad contract to protect my interests. In that cut, other than the trees missing, you'd never know they were there---they chipped the tops to take to a power plant and cleaned and bladed all my roads and covered them with mulch. NEVER seen such a good job. It was worth the three-year wait. A picture from the following spring.Pine Thinning 6-5-16.JPG
 
I don’t have any real world experience with this but was always told that the soil compaction from logging will kill some trees, especially in wetter areas. Have any of you guys seen this first hand? I have seen people around here selectively cut a woods and use horses or mules to pull the logs out based on the belief that compaction is that bad for the woods.


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A logging operation ain’t pretty, never was and never will be. The deep ruts would be my main concern, but that too can be repaired. I cut timber here at home a couple years ago and I wound up with some pretty bad ruts, but since I had a dozer I cleaned them up myself. I knew I’d do a better job than they would anyway. Some of the tops I pushed into small piles, as my wildlife exemption depends on several habitat choices and brush piles are one. I wound up with two humongous piles that I will burn this winter when conditions are right. Mother Nature has a way of healing the earth if man will give her half a chance.
 
What a mess. I had an 80 acre property cut in 2017 and a 40 acre property TSI'd in 2018. Excessive rain during the harvest on both places caused ruts and I spent a good deal of time on a tractor with a front end loader and a back blade smoothing things out. The road on the 40 was lost due to tops left in piles and big equipment cris-crossing the property. There are probably 200, 5 feet high and 20 feet long, spread randomly. I re-routed the road to follow the perimeter of the property. Roughed it in with the tractor and last month, asked the timber company to bulldoze it as there were stumps. I will see what it looks like on my next visit.
The 80 is low land and is now a jungle with poplar regrowth at 4 to 12 feet high and quite a bit of deer activity. All the "ugly" disappeared beneath the vegetation.
 
That grading job looks acceptable to me. What you have to keep in mind at all times through this process is that logging is a tremendous deer management tool due to the fact that they come and do all of your work for you, creating a huge amount of habitat, and pay you for the privilege of doing it. How can someone not like that!

Something that I often tell property owners; The standard to determine the quality of whitetail habitat can be quantified by measuring the average sight distance in said habitat. Shorter sight distances generally mean more food, more cover, and more deer. A forest fire is the quickest way to achieve this, but logging pays much better.
 
Thank you for your thoughts and encouragement. The EAB really limited the time frame I could before the trees were worth nothing. I was scheduled for a winter cut this past winter but, we thawed so many times here in WNY we never froze. Summer was the next best chance.
I kept many sanctuary areas as well as do not enter areas. I learned a ton from the good people here as well as working with my forester. Many thanks to all. Going to get me some new implements, seedlings, and tree tubes.
 
Man, you got nothing to worry about there, once they get those ruts all repaired and smoothed out. If not before winter this year, next spring that place will EXPLODE with new growth. You will be amazed. The only thing I can think of that would be nice---and could still do if they are there---is have them push out some small openings here and there, maybe half an acre each, for food plots and tree plantings. You got yourself a blank canvas. Just think to, you're only other option was a woods full of worthless, dead trees.
 
Great suggestions guys. I spoke with the logger last night and I asked him about opening up some of the spots that were kill plots in the woods. He said he would be happy to work that into the clean up plan. We are getting together Friday to discuss what I'd like. This will probably be my last chance to ask him to do something before he really gets going. Any other ideas or suggestions on things I should consider are very much appreciated! Six days of sunny weather coming here in western NY, more clean-up starts Friday, I will post pics.
I'm glad I started planting a bunch of Oaks when I bought this place over 10 years ago. They have been putting out acorns the last few years and should explode with the ample sunlight. Can't wait to get some more seedlings out there this fall and next spring.
 
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