The Future of Deer Hunting

Osceola

Osceola

Active Member
If you're a serious deer hunter, it's hard not to notice all the concern in deer hunting circles about the decreasing levels of participation in the sport.

Personally, I'm not too alarmed about this trend. Yes, I hate to see the wane of great traditions like hunting camps and the bonding of family and friends that occurs around these events and activities. I guess I'm just resigned to the fact that things change over time, for better or for worse. Societies and cultures evolve and hunting is becoming more of an activity for the hard-core enthusiast rather than the masses. I can't help but feel that fewer hunters means a better quality hunting experience for those of us who do it passionately.

So why all the concern? It seems to be mainly about money and political influence. Is it really necessary to have the revenue and the influence of the masses to manage deer herds adequately?

One argument I can buy is lack of adequate law enforcement against poachers. What are the other arguments that fewer hunters is bad for hunting?
 
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I’m concerned about lack in all hunting, not just deer. For many reasons but a big one is the survival of our species.

In 50 years without the skills needed to hunt, kill, track, clean, etc. how would humans survive in a catastrophic event like an asteroid hit or nuclear war. If humans couldn’t be fed by the groceries stores, resuarants or the gov, how many would die of starvation now.

I have taught my children the importance of hunting not for our amusement but for our survival. I hope they pass on what I have taught them to their children.
 
You have brought up a great idea for a discussion Osceola. Back about twenty years ago we didn't have fewer hunters here as in most locales but most hunters would not shoot a doe for any reason so basically we got to experience what might happen with fewer hunters. The result of course was an overpopulation of deer that devoured the lower five feet of plant growth. The impact of those years on the forest growth is still evident and it may not fully recover in one lifetime. With an advantage over other plants since deer would not eat them while eating all other plants, invasive plants and trees like Multiflora Rose and Buckthorn have overtaken entire stands of what used to be more desirable food and cover producing plants and trees. Prickly ash another invasive is simply now abundant where it was not even heard of before. Small game like rabbits and brush loving birds to name just two of many became very sparse as their hiding cover and food disappeared. Allowing the deer population to grow unchecked resulted in very negative changes to our forestland that significantly further reduced cover and food for deer and other wildlife.

Through significant habitat improvements done by hunter/land managers and deer population control via hunters following a change in mindset regarding does and recognition of the perils of deer over population, some forest land is in an improvement mode now. However with less hunters the cycle of too many deer overeating and degrading our woodlands could resume. In addition less hunters and thus less habitat improvers would likely add to accelerated forest destruction and result in a less healthy and stable deer herd, less wildlife in general and a poorer ecosystem for everyone, hunters and recreationists alike.
 
Fewer hunters....I guess I'm lucky to live in a rural state. Hunting masses are not much diff here and no doubt have increased in the last3-4 decades. Good? I don't know. I do know much more female participation. I do know hunters in general are passing more deer. I do know there is longer seasons for more animal types and with more weapon types than ever before.
Is it good? I'm not going to lie, I miss the days of seeing very few bowhunters in the field. I miss seasons being specific and not overlapping trying to cater to each group out there. I miss hunters not hunting over a pile of corn or for that matter a prepared foodplot. I miss going with group of people and hanging out in tents on side of a mountain for a week. I miss not worrying of overmanaging the deer population just as government overmanages anything.
But my dad always said , "nothing ever stays the same". So very true and I embrace and am guilty of many of the changes I just listed. But the fun has slowly diminished for the hunting population as a whole. It comes from a variety of reasons and like it or not, hunting is a dying sport and my grandchildren will probably see its demise within their lifetime for the most part. Depressing comments by me I know.
Results? Deer populations will have to be controlled in other manners. They will desimate the plant growth. Our forests will continue to be changed drastically from their pre colonial makeup. And for the most part, we will simply accept it without much a fight.
Technology has given us some amazing tools that I embrace but at the same time it has sneaked up on us and robbed us much of our real enjoyment and knowledge that we may not even realize we are not experiencing. With that, I will cease talking like an old man, and I hope to be proven wrong.
The best way to sum it up, is go to Gene and Barrys Wensel's websight and read for free his writing of "When Hunting Became Shooting".
 
Chainsaw said:
You have brought up a great idea for a discussion Osceola. Back about twenty years ago we didn't have fewer hunters here as in most locales but most hunters would not shoot a doe for any reason so basically we got to experience what might happen with fewer hunters. The result of course was an overpopulation of deer that devoured the lower five feet of plant growth. The impact of those years on the forest growth is still evident and it may not fully recover in one lifetime. With an advantage over other plants since deer would not eat them while eating all other plants, invasive plants and trees like Multiflora Rose and Buckthorn have overtaken entire stands of what used to be more desirable food and cover producing plants and trees. Prickly ash another invasive is simply now abundant where it was not even heard of before. Small game like rabbits and brush loving birds to name just two of many became very sparse as their hiding cover and food disappeared. Allowing the deer population to grow unchecked resulted in very negative changes to our forestland that significantly further reduced cover and food for deer and other wildlife.

Through significant habitat improvements done by hunter/land managers and deer population control via hunters following a change in mindset regarding does and recognition of the perils of deer over population, some forest land is in an improvement mode now. However with less hunters the cycle of too many deer overeating and degrading our woodlands could resume. In addition less hunters and thus less habitat improvers would likely add to accelerated forest destruction and result in a less healthy and stable deer herd, less wildlife in general and a poorer ecosystem for everyone, hunters and recreationists alike.
Click to expand...
Good points about deer overpopulation problems. Just playing Devil's advocate, isn't this a temporary problem that Mother Nature will correct over time? In other words, won't deer populations decrease due to disease/starvation/predation until it's down to a level supported by the current environment?
 
Leasing has taken it's toll on the poorer population where I live. I grew up where family and friends all got together for rifle season and spent a day or two together hunting, butchering, eating, and drinking. It was the best family reunion you could ask for. I see very little of that now. Mostly the people with low disposable income have lost land to people who see it as an investment and hunt with a partner (not a family group). I miss the comrade aspect of it a lot and doubt it makes it back.

Nature will take it's course weather we hunt or not. I believe the concern is in the loss of traditions and the kinship brought through hunting together (with our brothers). Which, in my opinion has already taken a toll. I believe websites like this are successful because deep down we all still want that kinship and have found it easy to find behind a keyboard. Otherwise we would just research articles on the internet for planting instructions. Instead we create interactions to replace lost ones...
 
Osceola said:
Good points about deer overpopulation problems. Just playing Devil's advocate, isn't this a temporary problem that Mother Nature will correct over time? In other words, won't deer populations decrease due to disease/starvation/predation until it's down to a level supported by the current environment?
Click to expand...
The whitetail is one of the few animal populations who have the ability to continue to grow in number, even with some severe affects, for a long time even as food availablity is reduced and the members are affected in size and health and in reproduction almost to the point of imploding, and only after the food is nearly gone and their mortality begins to increase. This is of course true without a natural predator. Now that is a different discussion, and with natural predators and sometimes drastic weather conditions of heat, cold, snow, etc, then populations can indeed manage themselves more as nature intended. Without the predator tho, it is often an ugly sight. I once could go on realtively small state park land and easily see malnourished and undersized deer. Now that we have limited hunting on these lands, their health has greatly changed.
 
Osceola said:
Good points about deer overpopulation problems. Just playing Devil's advocate, isn't this a temporary problem that Mother Nature will correct over time? In other words, won't deer populations decrease due to disease/starvation/predation until it's down to a level supported by the current environment?
Click to expand...

Yes without hunters, once the population far exceeds the ability of the land to support the deer, the population would crash here thru either disease or a massive winter starvation or two or three in a row. The population can then grow back until it exceeds the THEN current environment which MAY be not as conducive to deer repopulation as even todays. If the die off adjustment is large enough the deer regrowth could take seemingly indefinitely. Once the population gets so-ooo low, the annual recruitment just doesn't amount to much. Many "serious" deer hunters might not find hunting enjoyable anymore when just seeing a track is cause for excitement.
 
I can only report and reflect on the situation from my seat. Let's not confuse the declining level of participation with our ability to kill the entire deer heard if we want. Here and now I would believe we are well beyond peak whitetail population here in Virginia even in the face of declining license sales and, presumably, participation on a head-count basis. I'm not even sure how many deer an individual may harvest legally. It's more than I care to handle. Many do it well, though! It seems like all hunting here has, more or less, become an expensive elitist sport. It's tough to pay all the associated costs and then even more difficult to find land to hunt.

All this parallels a concussive shift from rural to urban/suburban living. In rural Virginia, especially what we call Southside, the jobs are gone. Textiles have gone to third-world countries, furniture manufacturing has consolidated and/or moved even further south to Mexico. Farming tobacco used to provide a decent supplemental income to manufacturing. What else? It's all gone. No jobs. No people. No connection to the land. No hunters. I'm not looking to reminisce or hope for the good old days. Its just the way it is...here.

So, we adjust. We compensate. More seasons. Longer seasons. Liberal harvest regulations. I'll throw another one in here. Lower state budgets and impacts on law enforcement. Shoot a deer anytime you'd like for fun or profit.

And yet, go into Bass Pro, Green Top, Cabelas, or any other hunting / sporting goods store around here (all in major urban/suburban corridors) and you'd never know the sport was in decline. Or, maybe it's not?
 
My biggest fear in the decrease of hunters is we as a group lose political backing and PETA type groups gain the upper hand.

Hunters want to hunt, PETA wants to stop hunting, most people are in the middle and don't really care one way or another - PETA people scream loud - hunters not so much sometimes.
 
I concur that hunting has turned into a sport for the affluent (I hesitate to call it a "sport" because it's so much more than that). To really get the most out of it you need your own land, in my opinion. The more the better. I "hunt" year round with all that entails; planning, scouting, habitat improvement, food plots, camera surveys, etc. I'm really not interested in public land hunting unless it's out West where I have thousands of acres at my disposal. If I did not have the wherewithal to own my own land, I'm not sure if I would even hunt in Michigan.
I suppose when we were an agricultural based society, many more people had access to large tracts of land, but that has changed and lack of access to good hunting property is likely the biggest driving factor in the decline. Not saying it's good or bad, just the way it is. You have to pay to play. I'm grateful I have the ability to pay and I feel for those who don't, but much of that is individual choice, too. I have made many sacrifices in my life to own my little slice of ground. Others have chosen other things. I don't have much sympathy for someone who bemoans their lack of good hunting access, but never has done anything to earn it.
 
It's more than just hunting - it's the death of Rugged Individualism.

Whether you realize it or not, there is a worldwide movement to turn the general populous into a group of helpless carbon based life forms that can do nothing for themselves and to be forced to rely on the cultural elite for their very existence.

The biggest obstacle to this is people who don't fall into the mold - and especially astute gun owners who can actually see what is happening. If you can disarm the populous, the rest of the plan falls into place easily. I never cease to be amazed at how many people can't see this plainly and seem to have no concerns at all. Some of them are really good people, and are actually pretty intelligent in other ways.

To specifically address your question - a loss of hunters also means a loss of gun owners, or at least people who are passionate about owning them. We need a voting base of people who can actually think for themselves and base their votes on the things that really matter.

I base every vote in every election solely on gun rights. I wouldn't vote for my brother for dog catcher if I felt he supported any form of gun control. There is never going to be a president, or governor, or mayor or any other elected official who will make enough difference in anything else that you will be able to actually measure it. But, any one of them can turn down the screws on controlling decent people who don't fit the mold.

Am I concerned about the future of hunting? Well...yes...but I am more concerned about whether or not there will be enough people left, with enough common sense and discernment to see what is actually happening in this crazy world - and be willing to do something about it......................
 
We share the same world view, Native Hunter, but I'm more optimistic about our "gun culture". I know an awful lot of suburbanites who don't hunt, but have impressive arsenals. Many of them carry concealed weapons, which I've never felt the need to do. National statistics back up my anecdotal evidence. Gun ownership is alive and well, but I think the hunting culture is changing, in some ways for the better.

I recently had an interesting conversation with my food plot supplier near my hunting property that illustrates my point. He told me his dad used to get drunk with his buddies and shoot deer all summer long. He remembers being shocked because they killed even spotted fawns indiscriminately. As a young man he followed in his dad's footsteps, but one day he shot a small spike and realized as he stood all alone looking over that deer he was ashamed of himself. He knew he was abusing and disrespecting this beautiful and valuable resource. He instantly turned over a new leaf and became a strong proponent of quality deer management and has championed antler point restrictions in Michigan to protect young bucks to help balance the herd. He taught his own son to respect and treat deer with dignity. This is an example of how I believe hunting is changing for the better. I'm not saying everyone used to be slob hunters and poachers, but in my neck of the woods, there is a lot of evidence that hunters, although fewer in number, are more selective and better stewards of the resource than ever.
 
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Fewer hunters will be the end of our hunting heritage, ultimately. I dont see that where i am at, but statistically we are losing numbers. The opposition is growing stronger. I can do math. Well, simple math like that. :)
 
Osceola said:
We share the same world view, Native Hunter, but I'm more optimistic about our "gun culture". I know an awful lot of suburbanites who don't hunt, but have impressive arsenals. Many of them carry concealed weapons, which I've never felt to need to do. National statistics back up my anecdotal evidence. Gun ownership is alive and well, but I think the hunting culture is changing, in some ways for the better.

I recently had an interesting conversation with my food plot supplier near my hunting property that illustrates my point. He told me his dad used to get drunk with his buddies and shoot deer all summer long. He remembers being shocked because they killed even spotted fawns indiscriminately. As a young man he followed in his dad's footsteps, but one day he shot a small spike and realized as he stood all alone looking over that deer he was ashamed of himself. He knew he was abusing and disrespecting this beautiful and valuable resource. He instantly turned over a new leaf and became a strong proponent of quality deer management and has championed antler point restrictions in Michigan to protect young bucks to help balance the herd. He taught his own son to respect and treat deer with dignity. This is an example of how I believe hunting is changing for the better. I'm not saying everyone used to be slob hunters and poachers, but in my neck of the woods, there is a lot of evidence that hunters, although fewer in number, are more selective and better stewards of the resource than ever.
Click to expand...

Osceola, I agree that right now the gun culture seems to be as safe as I've seen it for a while. I feel that is because of an awaking in recent years of many folks to what was happening slowly but surely. But, we can never let our guard down. Big money pours into the oppositions pockets every day. And what worries me the most is how the voting demographics are changing rapidly as older voters are replaced by a new generation with a whole different mindset. I'm not a social media person, but what I do see from time to time disheartens me.

Great story on the food plot supplier and his change of heart.

I like your optimism about the future. At least your story made me a little more positive tonight...:)
 
I was not a hunter while growing up. My son actually got me into it when he was about 11 and wanted to go. Fortunately we had family farm land to hunt and a brother and cousin to help. We got into bow hunting and I was hooked.
Now my son has three boys and lives a days drive so he gets to hunt maybe one day a year. I don't see him finding time, energy and land for the boys to hunt. My daughter lives 1 hour away so her boys can join me hunting and that's about all I care about as far as hunting is concerned. I much rather ride a tractor than hunt. That's just the way it is. I want to do everything I can to keep deer around for the grands to enjoy.
But for me the passion to "hunt" is not there. Maybe I need to pull out my bow!
 
I have no idea where the "fewer hunters" are, certainly not in my area. Im in WNY southern tier and the bow hunting in my area was ok this year, not great. And by ok I mean I would typically see 1 or 2 deer per 3-4hr sit. Then rifle season came and the orange army entered the woods. My father in law (165 acres) hunted sun up to sun down opening rifle season day and saw 0 deer, not one. He talks of years past where he would see 30 deer on opening day. To give you an idea I just got home from 2 days at my property. 3 to 4hrs in the morning, lunch, back out for 3-4hrs in the evening. I didnt see one deer. So if the hunters are dropping off, so are the deer. In my area anyway.
 
When you look at the Wisconsin hunter numbers and deer kill numbers we are back to the levels of the early 1980's. Many of the deer camps in northern WI have closed up shop without the new generation of hunters to keep them open. We have lost 1/7 of the gun deer license sold since the year 2000. Bars in the northern third of the state now close early or they dont open at all during season, it used to be their busiest week. Too many people have gotten to the point where they walk out to their shooting house for season in the morning and walk back in at dark. Too afraid to look around their land in case they bump "their deer" to the neighbors and it gets shot. When I started out hunting people were proud of what they shot and liked to show it off no matter the size. Now if it isn't a trophy people are embarrassed and hide the deer. If it is a nice buck people are also afraid to show it off because their neighbors might see it and hunt harder. It would be great to have the land and time to shoot only trophies but the reality is most people wont or cant in their areas. It used to be about the hunt and now seems to be more about the "inches" the buck scored. Shoot what makes you happy and have fun hunting. With the decrease in deer killed the number of taxidermists, processors have also diminished.
 
gasman said:
When you look at the Wisconsin hunter numbers and deer kill numbers we are back to the levels of the early 1980's. Many of the deer camps in northern WI have closed up shop without the new generation of hunters to keep them open. We have lost 1/7 of the gun deer license sold since the year 2000. Bars in the northern third of the state now close early or they dont open at all during season, it used to be their busiest week. Too many people have gotten to the point where they walk out to their shooting house for season in the morning and walk back in at dark. Too afraid to look around their land in case they bump "their deer" to the neighbors and it gets shot. When I started out hunting people were proud of what they shot and liked to show it off no matter the size. Now if it isn't a trophy people are embarrassed and hide the deer. If it is a nice buck people are also afraid to show it off because their neighbors might see it and hunt harder. It would be great to have the land and time to shoot only trophies but the reality is most people wont or cant in their areas. It used to be about the hunt and now seems to be more about the "inches" the buck scored. Shoot what makes you happy and have fun hunting. With the decrease in deer killed the number of taxidermists, processors have also diminished.
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I think there are countless things fun/ rewarding/ prideful of managing habitat and attempting to get bucks to a couple years of age. When I first started hunting 90% of the yearling bucks were shot at and shot up by the mass orange army that beat every deer out of every square foot of habitat. The deer were constantly running for their lives for 9 days a year.
I have become much more educated and knowledgeable about soil, water, forestland resources than everyone combined back in those days. It has become so much more than shooting any deer, and I would never return to the ignorance of those days.
 
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