Swamp Improvement

[cuffycreek]

We have 500 acres in the Upstate of South Carolina. About 50 acres of this property is a naturally occurring bottomland with beaver swamps scattered through it with a "duck impoundment" that we can drain and plant yearly. Just down from this "duck impoundment" is the beaver swamp in question. Water flows into this beaver swamp from both the impoundment to the west and a small fish pond that is to the north. As you can hopefully see from the picture (assuming the picture posting worked) there are a few deep channels through the swamp with very shallow water surrounding it.

My thought would be to attempt to move dirt from the shallow areas and into the deeper channels in order to make the whole area a shallow 1-2 foot swamp. Has anyone ever done something like this and how do you recommend getting it done? Ideally we would get a bulldozer or track hoe in there but I am trying to knock this out without the heavy equipment. We have a 75 HP tractor with plow and frontend loader. My thought would be to plow the areas as level as I can and then move dirt with the frontend loader.

Thoughts?

 

[Stickbow Felty]

I don't know about South Carolina but in Michigan you can't touch wet lands. They will lock you up.

 

[cuffycreek]

To clear things up a bit.. There will be no diverting of water or damming up areas that aren't normally dammed. This is in an area that holds water in December and January and is bone dry the rest of the months. I am simply wanting to fill in the ditches in order to plow the ground easier for planting millet in the summer. We have contacted our local office and have been told no permits will be required for this work and we are good to go for doing the work. I am just trying to find the easiest way to move a little dirt without a bulldozer.

 

[SwampCat]

Moving dirt, otherwise known as the deposit of dredged of fill material, will require at the very least a Sec 404 permit from the Corps of Engineers. I would get NRCS to come out and look and advise what types of permits you will need.

In this case, it is not easier to get forgiven that permission.

 

[Warrington]

Don't know for sure, but pretty positive that you would need to get a few different types of permits and approval for that.

Haven't done any similar projects myself (yet), but know someone nearby who has been fighting a very large fine for a number of years from something similar. Also know someone else nearby who spent a pile of money doing it the right way, and it really turned out incredible.

Good luck

 

[cuffycreek]

Thank you for the concerns. I will definitely double check again with our county NRCS, DHEC, the Corps and all necessary agents before any work is begun. My statement before about no permit was needed to do the work was from a comment made by the local NRCS agent who was on the property going over a different project. We took a look at the swamp and since it did not hold water when we looked at it he said nothing was required but i will definitely double check with the required people before hand.

On another note and going back to the original question.. assuming we do or do not need a permit to do this work and are granted the permit to do work.. do you all believe it would be easy to break the ground up with a plow and rough grade the area with a tractor and front end loader?

 

[DocHolladay]

Thank you for the concerns. I will definitely double check again with our county NRCS, DHEC, the Corps and all necessary agents before any work is begun. My statement before about no permit was needed to do the work was from a comment made by the local NRCS agent who was on the property going over a different project. We took a look at the swamp and since it did not hold water when we looked at it he said nothing was required but i will definitely double check with the required people before hand.

On another note and going back to the original question.. assuming we do or do not need a permit to do this work and are granted the permit to do work.. do you all believe it would be easy to break the ground up with a plow and rough grade the area with a tractor and front end loader?

Get it in writing, whether via email(print it and save a computer a copy) or handwritten.

Here is how I see it, If you remove/move soil from one area and place it in another, you are displacing the water and it has to go somewhere. It may just go to where you dug out of and it could be deeper than what you are trying to fill. Your best bet would be to bring in some fill dirt and use is to shallow up the deep areas. You will still have water displacement, but it shouldn't be as deep as if you dug soil out and moved it.

 

[Drycreek]

As far as I know, (being in oilfield construction for most of my life), the only animal that can change water flow without a permit is a beaver.

My question is, why would you want to ? Seriously.

 

[cuffycreek]

I believe my first post has set the majority of y’all off on a wrong foot about this project. The area I am wanting to work on is about the size of a baseball diamond to half a football field. There will be no diverting water more so to speak. As of now, water is standing (not flowing) in the deep ditches I mentioned which are about 2 feet deep. The shallow areas are anywhere from 1-6 inches. I am wanting to do this work and average the depth of the standing water to about 1 foot in order to make the area more appealing to waterfowl and to be able to plow and plant it easier as there won’t be ditches running through it.
the duck impoundment and small fish pond that feed this swampy area is all run off. There is no creek feeding the ponds which is why they dry up in the summers. There is a creek on this property but this swampy area does not feed into the creek.

If I do continue to plan this project I will get everything in writing stating whether I need or do not need a permit from the correct sources.

 

[X-farmerdan]

The issues of wetlands disturbance aside, I think I hear what you say you want to do. I can only see it thru the lens of my own 250 acres of similar swamp. Let's suppose the idea of filling ditches is a good one and has merit for your purposes. I have two questions. Have you figured out how many cubic yards of dirt your going to need to move to fill those ditches? And, two, what's to make you think the fill is going to stay in the ditch? Yes, I understand there may be no flow, but that doesn't mean there are no hydraulic dynamics in play. The weight of the water on top of the fill has to be a first but simple consideration. I guess there's a third question. This is a cut and fill problem where you're wanting a level base. Do you know how hard that is on dry ground? Oh, I guess it's doable, but is the benefit worth the cost?

 

[Drycreek]

I believe my first post has set the majority of y’all off on a wrong foot about this project. The area I am wanting to work on is about the size of a baseball diamond to half a football field. There will be no diverting water more so to speak. As of now, water is standing (not flowing) in the deep ditches I mentioned which are about 2 feet deep. The shallow areas are anywhere from 1-6 inches. I am wanting to do this work and average the depth of the standing water to about 1 foot in order to make the area more appealing to waterfowl and to be able to plow and plant it easier as there won’t be ditches running through it.
the duck impoundment and small fish pond that feed this swampy area is all run off. There is no creek feeding the ponds which is why they dry up in the summers. There is a creek on this property but this swampy area does not feed into the creek.

If I do continue to plan this project I will get everything in writing stating whether I need or do not need a permit from the correct sources.

Ah, nothing like clarification. My advice, once you find out if you can legally do this, just hire a contractor with a small (light weight) LGP dozerand level it. It's as simple as that. Sure, over time, the channels might re-form , but there's little you can do about that, and it's not likely to happen overnight. Once you start planting it, the roots of the crop will at least somewhat mitigate any erosion. You might have to wait until it's pretty dry, which might be past prime planting time, but you can probably work that out.

I know you asked about using a farm tractor, only you can determine if that's feasible. If you try it, and get your tractor stuck, well.......you'll know it won't work. LGP (low ground pressure) dozers are designed to work on shaky ground. The pads are wider for that very purpose. One word of warning, they won't walk on water, and when you get one stuck, it's really stuck. Get a contractor to look at it and make a determination based on his experience. Good luck and kill some ducks !

 

[pinetag]

Have you checked to see if it's actually designated as a wetland? You can use this site to find out and it will give a good estimate of where and how much if your area has any wetland designation.
https://www.fws.gov/wetlands/Data/Mapper.html

Not sure about your state but you could also contact your local Corps of Engineers rep to see if they would come out and do a "wetland delineation" survey. It does not cost anything and they should be able to tell you what you can and can't do. Just my .02

 

[jsasker007]

Sounds like without the ditches it might just stay wet because there would be no drainage? If it is wet certain times of year you are in for a battle against soft ground that won't support the weight of decent size equipment unless you have a lot of rock---maybe plant something that tolerates standing water as one of the plant characteristics?