Starting a fruit and nut orchard for wildlife

[catscratch]

Any recommendations for cereal (winter) rye? I found it available from Pennington and Grandpa Ray so far. I'm guessing my local feed/seed will have a few ag brands.


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I order it from the local CO-OP. Less than $20 for 50lbs of certified seed with no shipping charges. I can usually call them on a Monday and pick it up by Thursday. This is how I get most of my seed, they can get just about anything I want. They also sale clovers, radishes, turnips, and chicory by the scoop.

 

[Smallplot]

Does anyone have any experience with Grandpa Ray Outdoors? John is recommending a product he sells called inner sanctum. According to the site it's:

30% Spring Triticale

15% Alsike Clover

15% Frosty Berseem

15% Fixation Balansa

10% Med Red Clover

10% Bayou Kale

5% Ladino Clover

Interesting blend that's designed to grow in poor soil, shade and first time plots.

Thoughts on a blend like this?

Personally don’t like this type of blend. Too many clovers that act differently planted with a clover that tends to push out everything else. Not enough diversity in a mixed planting like this. If looking for diversity need to get some of many different types of plants and not just clover. To be honest if planting clover for the specific purpose hard to beat a white clover period. Yea there are all kinds of clovers out there but when looking for something that will come back year after year and be not only forage tolerant but easy to grow.


Another point I should make is the balsa clover. Believe this does best planted in fall as it is a harder seed and needs to stratify.


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[weekender21]

Thanks for the advice, sure is easier than trying to figure everything out on my own.

If I plant cereal Rye and white clover and don't have an opportunity to terminate the rye will the clover stand still have a chance? I'm guessing the rye will eventually die and fall over but that may take some time.

I don't have any issues planting cereal rye and crimson clover as suggested but my goal is a perennial plot that doesn't require maintenance for a few years. That doesn't mean it won't be maintained but as long as I answer to uncle Same my schedule will remain unpredictable.

I'll likely have to use hand tools and broadcast seed over bare ground. I've searched the web for ATV/UTV and tractor rentals in my area with no luck. The local rentall has excavators and skid loaders but thats about it.

 

[weekender21]

Logging roads.

I have a pretty good network of logging roads on the property now. I'd like to maintain some for access and others that are in favorable locations as plots.

I'm planning to plant the access roads in rye grass (not grain) to prevent erosion.

Any suggestions on what to plant on the roads that I'd like to use to feed the deer? The soil is poor, they were cut deep enough so the content is mainly clay. I'm not sure if I can get anything to grow on them at this point to improve the organic matter. Most of the roads are accessible with a 4x4 so I could possibly bring chicken litter or something similar in to amend the soil. I have no idea what that will cost.

 

[Smallplot]

When you talk about roadways I get the mental picture of lots of shade. For a shade tolerant planting look at the white clovers and possibly the Dutch white varieties or even sub clovers. They don’t get as tall but are more shade tolerant.


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[weekender21]

They are roads in logging clearcuts. There will be shade in ~6 years but full sun for now.

My concern is soil quality. One of the cut areas is 2 years old. The clear cut area looks like a jungle, the road is a desert. I think if there was any value to the soil at all there would be weeds.

The attached picture is one of the roads I'd like to plant with food for the deer. My parents helped me plant a few 10 gallon chestnuts there in October, I hope I didn't put them on death row...

View attachment 10346


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[Charlieyca]

If 2 years in the roads have no grass or weeds, the soil is too compacted for anytype of growth. I saw the same thing on my logging decks and roads in SE NC. I pulled an atv drag over them everytime I went to the farm to try and tear up as much ground as I could, especially when its wet. Now, they have some grasses growing which will speed up the process. You may want to focus on clearing some micro plots in the jungle and use the roads for access and shooting lanes. Feather the edges and clear some trails to help nudge them where you want them to go.

 

[weekender21]

I thought the roads were going to be a problem. I'd like to plant something on them to keep them from eroding. Maybe just easier to keep them maintained annually with heavy equipment and put plots elsewhere.


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[Charlieyca]

Have you tried dragging, discing or doing anything to break up the surface at all? depending on how bad it is compacted their may be enough soil there to grow some grasses or something, if you get it broke up enough the roots can take hold

 

[weekender21]

Not yet. I don't live in the area or own heavy equipment. I'll be on the property next month for a few days but doubt I'll accomplish much. Main goal is to show the family around and make a plan for this spring.


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[Charlieyca]

An atv drag on damp soil may do the trick if its not really large areas. Breaking the hardpan at the surface and letting some water get in will also loosen soil.

 

[Charlieyca]

Good luck, I grew outside charlotte and that red clay around there is tough to work in

 

[weekender21]

The logging roads aren't an immediate priority, I really need to prioritize my land improvements and ensure I'm having fun doing it. I plan to buy a harrow drag I can drag with a rental or just drag by hand. I'll experiment with small sections to see if breaking up the dirt alone will allow something to grow.

I grew up in Charlotte as well. The soil in the high country is MUCH better. The logging roads are the exception due to the depth they are cut into the ground. All of the fertile top soil is gone from the roads.