Soil Improvement

[shaman]

I have a question for y'all regarding soil restoration.

I've got a few 1/4 - 1 acre plots on my farm that the previous owners used for tobacco. They're pretty well spent. One even has a patch of sandy soil where nothing has grown for 17 years. Things are pretty well played out on these plots. They'd be great otherwise as locations for food plots for the deer. It is a dense clay soil. I've tested them for PH, nitrogen and such. The PH is on the low end of acceptable for things like clover. The nitrogen isn't all that bad either. Where other spots on my farm are chest high with grass before the hay dude comes around, these patches are barely up to the knee.

I tried spreading some Tractor Supply "pasture fertilizer" on a couple of these plots. I did see improvement, but not all that much for what I paid for the fertilizer.

On a small vegetable garden, I'd know just what to do: dig up a third, put in all my yard debris for a year. In the spring, cover over the debris with the contents of another 1/3. Wash, Rinse, Repeat. In a few years, I'd have tomatoes as big as watermelons. That's hard to do on a 1 acre plot.

My question is this: How do I improve the soil without spending gobs of money? This is a long term project. I'll be retiring to this farm in a few years. I expect this to be a project that follow me into my dotage.

 

[DocHolladay]

I would apply lime according to the soil test. If possible get some manure to help all of it, but especially the sandy area and then see what nature does until August-ish and plant a mix of WW, WR, CC, and AWP. You might consider some radishes to help with any hardpan and mining some more nutrients. You can plant straight WR(winter rye) a little on the heavy side and start working on throw-n-mow. Some in here will have a better suggestion than me because they have dealt with the sand longer than I have. I am still working on it on my lease. We have done what I suggested above and going into our second year... it's starting to help.

Thumb through this thread and also look at the sticky thread in this(Foodplot) forum....
http://deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/a-soil-test.2530/

 

[shaman]

BTW: the sandy patch is in one corner and it's small. I don't HAVE to fix it. I just mentioned it to illustrate how depleted the over-all condition of these plots are.

 

[Bowman]

In addition to what DocHollady said I would plant Arvika peas early and overseed buckwheat when soil temp is 65 degrees, then follow his recommendation. Another option could be sudangrass. Soil temperature needs the same temperature. Great at stifling weeds. If mowed, root mass is greatly increased. Leave the mowing. Possibly can be mowed multiple times. In preparation for Doc's reco, mow the last time very low. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Creek chub]

I’ve had good luck in a similar situation minus the tobacco in planting winter rye (cereal, not grass) and had really good establishments last fall. It is really starting to grow now and I intend to throw and mow buckwheat in some plots and Sunn Hemp and something else in others

 

[shaman]

In reading through your responses and the various stickies, I think a lightbulb is coming on. I'm seeing similarities with what I faced when I moved into my first suburban house. The previous owner had really screwed up his lawn by over fertilizing and bagging all his clippings . When I dug down there was only a half-inch of topsoil on top of hard clay.

After I moved in, I limed, reseeded with perennial rye, and stopped bagging. I also set my mower on its highest setting, and only mowed when I had to. Things improved dramatically. A few years later, I had occasion to dig in the yard in the same spot I'd dug when I first moved in. I was astonished to find a foot of dark rich topsoil. was there. I had to step back and retriangulate-- yep, this was the spot!

Come to think of it, I left out one ingredient. Maybe y'all could comment on: Gypsum. I spread gypsum on the lawn. As I remember, I spread it 100 lbs per 2500 sq ft. I knew about gypsum from the fact that my grandparents lived next door to Lou Crosley. At that time, the Crosley's owned the Cincinnati Reds, and Lou had a spare lot out back of his house that he loaned to the club to test turf ideas for Crosley Field. I grew up playing on that test plot. Lou, had retired years earlier and taken up organic gardening, but kept close ties with the club.

I've got a gypsum mine about 20 miles from the house. What would a dump truck of gypsum do to these plots?

 

[MarkDarvin]

In reading through your responses and the various stickies, I think a lightbulb is coming on. I'm seeing similarities with what I faced when I moved into my first suburban house. The previous owner had really screwed up his lawn by over fertilizing and bagging all his clippings . When I dug down there was only a half-inch of topsoil on top of hard clay.

After I moved in, I limed, reseeded with perennial rye, and stopped bagging. I also set my mower on its highest setting, and only mowed when I had to. Things improved dramatically. A few years later, I had occasion to dig in the yard in the same spot I'd dug when I first moved in. I was astonished to find a foot of dark rich topsoil. was there. I had to step back and retriangulate-- yep, this was the spot!

Come to think of it, I left out one ingredient. Maybe y'all could comment on: Gypsum. I spread gypsum on the lawn. As I remember, I spread it 100 lbs per 2500 sq ft. I knew about gypsum from the fact that my grandparents lived next door to Lou Crosley. At that time, the Crosley's owned the Cincinnati Reds, and Lou had a spare lot out back of his house that he loaned to the club to test turf ideas for Crosley Field. I grew up playing on that test plot. Lou, had retired years earlier and taken up organic gardening, but kept close ties with the club.

I've got a gypsum mine about 20 miles from the house. What would a dump truck of gypsum do to these plots?

Now you’re talking my favorite subject. When u got your soil test, did you get base saturation numbers, as well as sulfate numbers?

I’d be looking at pH first and getting it fixed with the right lime (calcitic vs dolomitic). Need to know if you’re heavy on either Ca or Mg before u begin.

I think gypsum is the cheapest, easiest, and most overlooked soil amendment in the plotters world. I use it every year to add sulfur to my crops and the deer response has been clearly shown to favor crops with sulfur vs no sulfur. Keep in mind, my soil had 2 ppm when I took it on.

Sulfur is the flavor nutrient. Gypsum is the way to get it. Knowing whether you need it is the next step.



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[dogghr]

Not sure of your tobacco field as mine will grow anything thicker than anywhere else on my farm. As said, I'd get corrections done per soil test but the best thing I did for poor soils is simply follow the Lickcreek rotations each year and everything on my soil tests from ph to nutrients has remained great for nearly 9 years after their initial treatments. Fert and lime seldom need anymore. Good luck.

 

[Creek chub]

Now you’re talking my favorite subject. When u got your soil test, did you get base saturation numbers, as well as sulfate numbers?

I’d be looking at pH first and getting it fixed with the right lime (calcitic vs dolomitic). Need to know if you’re heavy on either Ca or Mg before u begin.

I think gypsum is the cheapest, easiest, and most overlooked soil amendment in the plotters world. I use it every year to add sulfur to my crops and the deer response has been clearly shown to favor crops with sulfur vs no sulfur. Keep in mind, my soil had 2 ppm when I took it on.

Sulfur is the flavor nutrient. Gypsum is the way to get it. Knowing whether you need it is the next step.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How much sulphur do you add say on a half acre plot? My plots are low on everything except for rocks

 

[MarkDarvin]

200 lbs of pelletized gypsum would give you a good rate of sulfur. Up here, we can get sulfur from our home improvement stores for $5/50lb bag.

 

[Creek chub]

200 lbs of pelletized gypsum would give you a good rate of sulfur. Up here, we can get sulfur from our home improvement stores for $5/50lb bag.

Thanks. I will give it a try. Boron was another element my plot was very low in.

 

[MarkDarvin]

200 lbs of pelletized gypsum would give you a good rate of sulfur. Up here, we can get sulfur from our home improvement stores for $5/50lb bag.

I made a big error in this post. It's not sulfur we can get, it's gypsum.