Problem-Solution

Bowriter

Member
Backstory: The land I am consulting on is in south-central, KY-Mennonite country. It is 400-acres of fields, crp and timber. Superb deer habitat and slightly burgeoning deer population. Limit is one buck a year, several does. Baiting is legal.

Problem: My client and his wife are good hunters. But they have become somewhat lazy. He has feeders and cameras and shooting houses everywhere…Except where they need to be to kill a truly mature buck. Each year, they routinely kill a 135-150 class buck. Why not the 165-185’s that are there.

Discussion: What is they are doing to keep them from getting a shot at the big boys? Think about this. What is the immediate reaction of 6+-yr. old buck to a feeder, camera and shooting house? In my experience and to my thinking, it is this. “Visit only after dark. Sight and scent check from two or three locations before approaching.” And, that is exactly what the cameras showed.

Game Plan: Keep in mind, this is what I suggest for next season. Basic scouting: The first thing I did was spend three days doing nothing but scouting and taking notes. I was looking, specifically, for only three things. (1) Signpost rubs. (2) Rub lines or signpost rubs in thick cover. (3) Said rubs in connection to feeders etc.

Thinking: My thinking is this-those bucks, in the days prior to the peak of the rut, (Nov. 1-15), are looking. Where do they look? Where the does congregate-at feeder and on approach trails. Where then, can those bucks scent check both the does and the shooting house? That spot will almost always be marked by a signpost rub and a prominent one. That is what I was looking for.

I then began to select trees for hanging stands, most, no more than 12-feet off the ground, most just under a ridge line. All were picked as a bow stands but three. Our plan is to hang at least, 15-fixed position stands in the next couple weeks. They will safety checked once, in late summer and not hunted until the end of Oct. No stand will be hunted twice in 14-days. At present, I have 56-pages of notes and drawings. Most fun I have had since I got Donna in the back seat of my 59-Ford.




Disclaimer: I feel sure, someone will immediately post about all the huge bucks killed in Texas over feeders. Let me reiterate-this aint TX. And sure, big bucks are killed every year from shooting houses. But not on this property. This about a specific, piece of property. A specific problem and how I see the solution.
Sometimes, I feel like a nut.
 

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Now post is great for getting hunters to think. Obviously I believe you take notes of everything if you have 56 pages of notes and drawings. Do you take a camera in the woods to take photos? Those of us that have smart phones take pictures on our phone.

How far away from feeder & shooting house do you find these signpost rubs where the big bucks are scent checking? I remember you pattering an older buck on Cheatham that you killed from about 70 yards - best I remember he was a big 9 pointer. Using my son's age as a reference I think that was about 28 years ago.

The bucks are patterning the feeders and you are locating (patterning) their scent checking location.

Do your clients ever use a ground blind positioned and brushed in months ahead of time?

What score range do you believe the target bucks on this farm would be in? We talking about 40 or 50 inches better than what they are accustomed to harvesting.

Sounds like they have a good age structure on their farm.
 
I like this topic.
I always get into this with my buddies that hunt out of elevated box blinds/or bait, and have a lifetime of killing bucks sub par of the larger ones they have on camera, an haunt their dreams..

Pretty common knowledge now how large a bucks homerange is, and even larger over the course of 4, 5, or 6yr old's lifetime. All the things that they see, and the smells they gather for information around these things they see all get put in that survival priority brain of theirs.

In a state where baiting is legal, and most woodlots have an abundance of shooting houses in every outside and inside corner of a woodlot, and every place that is demed a "good spot" those deer easily figure out that those houses, mean danger...and so does bait. No way does a 5 or 6 yr old buck in our area not see someone sneaking into one in the morning, after dark, see another deer shot out of one, or see people filling the feeders before they reach that age...and these elevated houses stick out like a sore thumb. In MI where I hunt, I could count out the window on the free way and get to 100 box blinds viewed in probably less than 10 minutes going 70 mph...

I always hear my friends say "after a couple weeks, they get use to it" I assume "they" means does and immature bucks. The bucks they dream of, or the big ones they have on camera have seen a negative, or danger situation from those blinds, or bait on their property, or learned from their neighbors property in their handful of years reaching that "big buck size". Just because WE take care of our scent/access, doesn't mean our neighbors did every time. Our blinds and bait piles "look" the same as theirs.

I have never hunted out of a box blind because of this. I have however hunted out of ground blinds that were brushed in so well they basically disappear even when looking for them, and the access is as secure as possible. If I don't annoy the people I'm with when I'm brushing one in that I'm taking too long and its "good enough" I probably didn't spend enough time to kill a good deer out of it.

Just my 2 cents...
 
WBP- (1) I take a camera everywhere. (2) Sign post rubs can be from 50-150-yards away. Depends on terrain and cover. (3) Seldom use ground blinds. (4) Best bucks maybe as much as 20-30-inches bigger than the ones being killed. great trophy potential. Good age structure, fair sex ratio.

I keep a separate notebook on each piece of property. It contains everything I think of from rough maps to just random thoughts. All rubs, licking branches and some scrapes are noted. Travel trails for different times of the year are mapped. Fence, stream or road crossing are lined in red. Photos are kept in separate folders and dated. Stand locations are clearly marked as well as approach to them.
 
Sounds to me this property has the potential to have a B & C buck - not saying it will but with good rainfall that is not out of reason.

Thanks for the feedback. Personally, I too believe feeders make deer nocturnal - especially when people get anxious and check their cameras too often.
 
I did some work on the dozier while ago and was thinking - the location the bucks are scent checking from would be determined by likely wind directions. Many times terrain determines wind direction.

Your problem solving post helped me out. Thanks.
 
Just got the call-heading up tomorrow for two-three days. As for B&C bucks. Potential is moderate to good. Yes, there are at least three that frequent this property. More likely is the 160-170 class. Since I am 100% opposed to baiting, I give no council on that. However, natural browse is more than sufficient in terms of nutrients to produce large antlers.
My client(s) are attempting to create a deer haven, complete with sanctuary. That, I have designated and I have outlined approximately 53-acres of food plots, sculpted to conform. There is no question, in my mind, there will be bucks on this property that will exceed B&C minimums. Can they be killed? Who knows.
I should state, I have never been invited to hunt, nor have I asked. We are friends but this is a job or work. My thrill will come if one of them arrows a B&C buck from a stand location, I picked out.

This type of consultation is what keeps me young.. Wayne-Keep in mind, morning thermals on ridges and propensity for afternoon action on agricultural land. As you know, wind where we live, doesn't blow...it sucks.

Getting ready for day one of stand hanging.
 

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Thanks for the feedback. Personally, I too believe feeders make deer nocturnal - especially when people get anxious and check their cameras too often.

Feeder in open field...yes! Feeder in deep woods...not so much...

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OkieKubota,

How often do you check your game cameras? I would agree that the security a deer feels or don't feel around a feeder would increase or decease (with little security) the probability of day time movement.
 
I would guess that even if Okie checks his camera's as often as he fills the feeders that it's considered (by the deer) less intrusive than the neighbors' places. Okie has commented many times how populated and aggressive his neighboring boundaries are with deer hunting. Okie has also alluded to the fact that he seldom leaves the trails so that the deer are secure on his place. I think it's a relative thing...
 
OkieKubota,

How often do you check your game cameras? I would agree that the security a deer feels or don't feel around a feeder would increase or decease (with little security) the probability of day time movement.
I check that cam twice a week...Sunday and Thursday...when I fill that feeder every week...when I hunt it I check it as well on Saturday. When I go out to fill it I always drive my tractor to it with 300 lbs of corn in the bucket.

My feeders in my open plot don’t get anywhere near the daytime use the woods feeder does...
 
I would guess that even if Okie checks his camera's as often as he fills the feeders that it's considered (by the deer) less intrusive than the neighbors' places. Okie has commented many times how populated and aggressive his neighboring boundaries are with deer hunting. Okie has also alluded to the fact that he seldom leaves the trails so that the deer are secure on his place. I think it's a relative thing...
Right on...
 
You'll never convince Lee and Tiffany that mature bucks don't come to feeders during day light hours.

G
 
I am done until next fall on the property. In the process of things, we also saw about 270-turkeys and more bobcat sign than I have seen in many years. Unfortunately, I cannot get the pictures to post and do not have a way to re-size them, that works. I have convinced my client to reduce his feeders and cameras by half and go back to hunting. I also got quite wet, due to the constant rain but only fell twice...well, three times if you count the one on the porch. :0 Wish I could show the photos. In summary, dang good three-days and a whole bunch of good food.

Now. Let me say this: I don't care how many pictures you have of good bucks at feeders in the daylight. I have a ton of them, too. The question is, of that great number of pictures, how many of those big bucks have you killed? What you and I do, most of us, is not make an edited television show. We cannot re-wind and edit and splice. We cannot take footage from one day and splice it into week after tomorrow. We, you and I, deal with now. I hope you understand what I am trying to convey. I saw my client, go from being one of the best hunters and guides I have ever known, to a lazy-arsed shooter, sitting in a comfortable shooting house, waiting for a buck he has on camera to walk by and stick his head int he trough. Hopefully, I have started his thinking back on the right path.

Now, it is time to cook up some cowboy chili.
 

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If you would email me the photos I would try to resize them and sent them back to you or I would post them on a thread if you specified which thread. Others have done similar procedures to help one another.

wbpdeer@att.net

Just an offer to help if you think that is worth a try.

Wayne
 
Now. Let me say this: I don't care how many pictures you have of good bucks at feeders in the daylight. I have a ton of them, too. The question is, of that great number of pictures, how many of those big bucks have you killed? What you and I do, most of us, is not make an edited television show. We cannot re-wind and edit and splice. We cannot take footage from one day and splice it into week after tomorrow. We, you and I, deal with now. I hope you understand what I am trying to convey. I saw my client, go from being one of the best hunters and guides I have ever known, to a lazy-arsed shooter, sitting in a comfortable shooting house, waiting for a buck he has on camera to walk by and stick his head int he trough. Hopefully, I have started his thinking back on the right path.

Now, it is time to cook up some cowboy chili.

This is gonna be fun...can I post wife’s deer as well?

2018

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Shot from back porch of our house at feeder...

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This feeder...

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This house...

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