Native American Chestnut Comeback?
- Thread starter cagantpr
- Start date
Jason Broom
Well-Known Member
Young chestnut trees have not been uncommon since the vast majority of adult trees were wiped out, but they have almost all eventually succumbed to the blight. They may or may not ever be large or healthy enough to produce seed, but the main problem is they ultimately do not survive to adulthood. Some places see trees get just big enough to produce nuts, propagating trees in that area, but again, none of them reach maturity. Until that particular detail changes, Darwin will still be on the losing end. Personally, I don't think that's going to happen until progeny from the GMO trees is shown to retain blight resistance for several decades...generations, even!
letemgrow
Well-Known Member
Have any pics of the trees? Seems to be several people that have trees still around and some producing.
The Ozark Chinkapin also succumbed to blight in the 60's. I live in the Ozarks and have never met a person who remembers Ozark Chinkapin. Unlike American Chestnut, Ozark Chinkapin is very rare now. I grow Allegheny Chinkapin, which have some blight resistance, and have 15-20 foot trees, but have lost some to blight. I also grow Dunstan Chestnut, Chinese Chestnut, and Sequin/Chinese Chinkapin.
At my age I don't have time to waste, so planting Ozark Chinkapin and American Chestnut is a noble cause I can't afford. I do hope and pray for American Chestnut and Ozark Chinkapin to make a come back, and think that Letemgrow and people like him bring hope.
At my age I don't have time to waste, so planting Ozark Chinkapin and American Chestnut is a noble cause I can't afford. I do hope and pray for American Chestnut and Ozark Chinkapin to make a come back, and think that Letemgrow and people like him bring hope.
letemgrow
Well-Known Member
From what I read on the Ozark Chinquapin, they were more resistant to blight than the American Chestnut. They are finding trees of Ozark chinquapin in its home range growing. Should be easy to find since the bloom so late and make the tree look white from a helicopter ride.
cagantpr
Active Member
That's a good idea, and I have not thought about it. I have limited room with sunlight at my hunting land but was considering digging a pair of the smaller trees (6 footers) and trying to transplant them in my lawn where they will get tons of sunlight.
I know how much you contribute to these forums so I will gladly ship you some scions if you want to give them a try. I will need a few instructions on how you would like me to gather them. I will also need to drag an extension ladder out there to get to the lowest scaffolds of my big ones. Remember in those pictures that the pole trimmer I leaned against the trees for relative size has been extended out to 10 feet.
cagantpr
Active Member
This is probably right, but we may not know for quite some time. I will hold out hope till I see my 45 footer start showing some sign of blight. Any ideas of how old a tree of that size (5 inch caliper) growing in partial sunlight under an oak canopy might be? I am thinking maybe about 15 years which isn't much younger than some of the hybrids that are thought to be blight resistant.
Here is a picture of one of my blighted trees. I sent samples in of this one and it was also identified as a true American Chestnut. If you are able to zoom, you can see its growing in a clump from a stump and has blight (orange, bloated bark below the orange and yellow tape). It is a different animal than the ones in the pictures I posted previously. It is about 25 feet tall and has a 2.5 inch caliper.
Jason Broom
Well-Known Member
" I am thinking maybe about 15 years which isn't much younger than some of the hybrids that are thought to be blight resistant."
There have been reports of trees reaching this age in many areas, with some of them producing seed before eventually succumbing to the blight.
I hope you're right, that some true American Chestnut trees will eventually show a natural blight resistance and propagate those genetics, naturally. However, the last century or so has given us little indication that this is going to happen anytime soon. That's why I'm hoping the GMO seeds/trees get approved and we're able to plant those sometime in the not-too-distant future.
There have been reports of trees reaching this age in many areas, with some of them producing seed before eventually succumbing to the blight.
I hope you're right, that some true American Chestnut trees will eventually show a natural blight resistance and propagate those genetics, naturally. However, the last century or so has given us little indication that this is going to happen anytime soon. That's why I'm hoping the GMO seeds/trees get approved and we're able to plant those sometime in the not-too-distant future.
letemgrow
Well-Known Member
Whether they get to be blight resistant or not (which nature has said with past history is a good possibility), they still will produce nuts in between the blight cycles when they re-sprout and have the sunshine to make it happen.
Manage them like an apple orchard, such as Sara Fitzsimmons is doing. Seems to work where they have loads of pure American Chestnuts very often.
Manage them like an apple orchard, such as Sara Fitzsimmons is doing. Seems to work where they have loads of pure American Chestnuts very often.
letemgrow
Well-Known Member
Mudpacks also help on the stems....I guess its the microbes in the soil that keep the blight at bay from what I gathered??
Always wondered why people fight pests, insects, diseases for lots of trees and shrubs when they could just use other options...yet the American Chestnut is wrote off in just the opposite fashion....
Always wondered why people fight pests, insects, diseases for lots of trees and shrubs when they could just use other options...yet the American Chestnut is wrote off in just the opposite fashion....
Kabic
Active Member
Was his name something like IndianJoe. ..maybe that is a different guyHere are some trees from a gentleman that had them in IN...he was on the QDMA forum with him and cannot remember his handle name or anything on there. Real name is Larry, but he was selling pure American Chestnuts on some he had in his yard.
letemgrow
Well-Known Member
Looks like the stem behind the blighted one is still clean? Be interesting to see how long it takes the blight to top kill the tree and have it re-sprout. Should be back up to that height in no time given some management for sunlight.
ncstewart
Member
The ozarks are very rare but I have found some. All I found have blight and are regrowth from a stump. I also haven't found any that produce yet. They all have burs but no nuts inside the burs.
I tbudded some Ozark to Chinese stock so I'll see what happens. Been growing rootstock for the purpose of grating the ozarks onto them in the future.
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letemgrow
Well-Known Member
That sounds right for his handle name.
letemgrow
Well-Known Member
The more I thought about it, I'd have to look at it like this...how many acres of oaks do you have and how many acres of American chestnuts do you have? Would be worth it to me to keep everything cut out around those trees.
When they do blight in the future, they can blow back up in growth in no time. Not counting the time in between they will be producing nuts and getting spread elsewhere.
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possum
Active Member
I have a 5yr old American Chestnut in full sun that is 15+ ft tall. Some Americans I planted this spring in full light are 5.5' tall. Planted one under a closed canopy this spring as a test and it is only 12" tall but it was browsed by a rabbit at some point so that could have something to do with it.
Congrats on your find!
FYI, the GMO trees may or may not be sucsessfull but the ACF B3F3 trees which are proven to be highly blight resistant are being planted all over the country now. Those trees are already producing nuts and in a few years the public will be able to buy seedling trees for private orchards and reforestation.
Congrats on your find!
FYI, the GMO trees may or may not be sucsessfull but the ACF B3F3 trees which are proven to be highly blight resistant are being planted all over the country now. Those trees are already producing nuts and in a few years the public will be able to buy seedling trees for private orchards and reforestation.
cagantpr
Active Member
Thanks for popping this to the top again, letemgrow. By coincidence, I was planning an update myself.
2016 Nut Drop:
As I said previously, the trees are in my sanctuary. However, every time I snuck past them last fall I looked around for nuts but couldn't find any. My woods are still recovering from a complete gypsy moth defoliation (all oaks, apples, and chestnuts) in the summer of 2015. Everything leafed back out in fall of 2015 and again in spring of 2016. I had ZERO acorns and only a handful of apples last fall, though. Since all of my AC's were also defoliated, it seems that no nuts last year may have been due to the 2015 gypsy moths as well
Last Winter Observations
I spent more time this past winter looking around trying to identify more AC trees. I found dozens more that I must have overlooked. These trees are all seedlings under the canopy anywhere from 20 inches to 6 feet. None of these are growing from stumps and most are located 100's of yards from my biggest trees. As I stated above, the 2 trees that I can see are blighted are clearly growing from old stumps.
Past Week's Observations
I took my last tour before hunting season this past week (very late in summer for me compared to past years). No real change to my biggest trees that I described above. The 2 blighted trees look no worse than they did last year. Happily, my biggest tree (the 1st pic I posted) seems to be winning the competition with the oaks. The topmost scaffolds were fully illuminated with bright sunshine. As far as nuts, I still don't have an answer. I studied the branches with binoculars and can't see any evidence of fruiting. I don't know if this means I won't have any though since I have no idea of the timing or maybe even what I am looking for. Also, my oaks are starting to drop a few baby acorns even though I can't see nuts through the binoculars either. I also can't see any fruiting on my 15 Dunstans (15 footers) nor a neighbor farm's Chinese chestnuts (massive). So, it looks like I will be back to lurking around the trees with my head down when I get in there to hunt in October.
2016 Nut Drop:
As I said previously, the trees are in my sanctuary. However, every time I snuck past them last fall I looked around for nuts but couldn't find any. My woods are still recovering from a complete gypsy moth defoliation (all oaks, apples, and chestnuts) in the summer of 2015. Everything leafed back out in fall of 2015 and again in spring of 2016. I had ZERO acorns and only a handful of apples last fall, though. Since all of my AC's were also defoliated, it seems that no nuts last year may have been due to the 2015 gypsy moths as well
Last Winter Observations
I spent more time this past winter looking around trying to identify more AC trees. I found dozens more that I must have overlooked. These trees are all seedlings under the canopy anywhere from 20 inches to 6 feet. None of these are growing from stumps and most are located 100's of yards from my biggest trees. As I stated above, the 2 trees that I can see are blighted are clearly growing from old stumps.
Past Week's Observations
I took my last tour before hunting season this past week (very late in summer for me compared to past years). No real change to my biggest trees that I described above. The 2 blighted trees look no worse than they did last year. Happily, my biggest tree (the 1st pic I posted) seems to be winning the competition with the oaks. The topmost scaffolds were fully illuminated with bright sunshine. As far as nuts, I still don't have an answer. I studied the branches with binoculars and can't see any evidence of fruiting. I don't know if this means I won't have any though since I have no idea of the timing or maybe even what I am looking for. Also, my oaks are starting to drop a few baby acorns even though I can't see nuts through the binoculars either. I also can't see any fruiting on my 15 Dunstans (15 footers) nor a neighbor farm's Chinese chestnuts (massive). So, it looks like I will be back to lurking around the trees with my head down when I get in there to hunt in October.
