Lighter vs heavy arrow

B

Bullwinkle

Active Member
Would love some advice

Booked a mule deer hunt in Sept. My guide wants me prepared for a 70 yard shot

My normal arrow set up is a 10.4 gpi arrow that’s wicked powerful.

I’m thinking to dropping to a 9.1 gpi arrow to flatten the trajectory to make it easier at long distance

A friend said he’d keep the 10.4 gpi due to wind drift.

We’ll be in open sage. Wind is an issue

What I don’t have a feel for is will 10% weight make that much of a difference?

Any opinions?
 
I've shot everything from 400 to 532 grains of finished arrow. Currently shooting 532 grains and have no reduced accuracy at distance. If you're planning on taking a 70 yard shot I'd imagine you're using a range finder. If you're confident with your current set up I wouldn't change a thing.
 
I'd be more leery of a guide that advocates 70 yard shots on a live critter. I don't care if you can drill tacks at 100 yards, animals move. You can't count on them to remain in the same spot while your arrow flies 70 yards.
 
Bull,
I’ve done the spot and stalk thing for mule deer for a long time (my shots averaged just under 50yds). I personally wouldn’t make a change from a setup that is working and which you know well. Rangefinders make it possible with either set up. I will say I would not shoot fixed heads in higher winds at longer ranges. I learned early a mechanical really drifted less than my slick tricks. Although I can hit a deer every time at 70yds, my group sizes open up dramatically after 60. I won’t shoot passed 65 on an unwounded animal....it’s too easy for them to move even if your shot is true. On an alert animal, the ranges is significantly less, particularly on antelope.

I know folks who are proficient to a lot further....but things simply get too unpredictable for me.
 
I would agree to stay with your current setup. The better penetration outweighs the trajectory, no pun intended.

I used to practice out to 70 yards too, but my 3D muley never moved :) Live deer deserve better IMO.
 
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It is not just the trajectory. A 100 gr lighter arrow will travel significantly faster - reducing the amount of missed shot placement if the animal happens to move between the arrow release and striking the target. A lighter arrow will also have less arch - reducing the odds of hitting branches outside your line of sight. Long shots will result in your arrow being significantly above your line of sight. I am not saying dont shoot the heavier arrow - just be aware of all the obstacles. A bow quiver can also catch a significant amount of wind - might want to take it off before the shot if it is windy.
 
Considering the above posts, I should add that I've only hunted mule deer with a rifle. However, I've taken several pronghorn with a vertical bow, and 47 yards was my longest shot. I hit him perfectly and he was down in 15 yards. But, and this is a big BUT, a few moments before I was milliseconds from triggering my release when he suddenly shot away following a doe. She stopped, he stopped, and I shot. That could easily have turned into a gut or hip shot animal. I know that when we bowhunt that's a scenario we often face, it just seems to me it's compounded by longer shots.

That said, when I was younger, with better eyes and shoulders, I would have felt very comfortable on a calm animal to 50/60 yards when I was pulling 70 pounds. These days, my bow sits at 58, my arrow is still 450+ grains, so my speed is probably in the 250/260 range. I guess it all boils down to "Can you do it ?" I can't, but that doesn't mean you can't.
 
Dropping arrow weight won’t make it ‘easier’ at longer distances. It might give you a slightly larger margin of error if you are off on yardage.

What speed is your bow shooting each arrow?
 
A heavier arrow will carry more kinetic energy down range where the lighter arrow will shoot flatter but won't have the same "punch" when it gets there. Whatever you decide to go with is up to you just practice with your setup so you have confidence in your shooting. Very few people are good enough to judge distance well enough to hit where they want past 25 yards without the aid of a range finder. No such thing as practicing too much as long as you're not pulling too much draw weight. People were killing animals with a stick and string long before we had the ability to shoot near 400 feet per second---just know your equipment. Heavy or light arrow will both get the job done so which do you prefer? Most will go with speed. I go for the pass through with about 15gpi on my setup.
 
^^^^This sparked a thought. You’re only talking about dropping 1.3 GPI which translates to 37 total grains on a 29” arrow.

I’m a gear and whore and have done quite a bit of testing in the past. With a 40 grain difference I’ve noticed no point of impact difference until 50 yards. To truly get a significant trajectory benefit you’d have to go lighter.

Not bragging but it seems relevant. I took 1st place adult BHFS last Sunday in an unmarked 3D course with my 532 grain hunting arrows. My buddy shot 2nd place with 502 grain arrows. I guarantee the rest of the competition was shooting lighter set ups.

My point, stick with your current setup assuming you already have confidence with it.


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Great advice guys makes a lot of sense

I am worried about anything over 50. No issue with and elk or moose but in my head 70 yards seems out of my capability for deer in that wind

HB - no idea on speed but my current set up is devastating.

I’ll shoot both and see if it makes a difference.

I’m also thinking of dropping to 65lb to get more stable. I can shoot 40 arrows easily at 70lb but can hold steadier with 65lb
 
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One more thing I want you guys to know. I’m not taking a shot over my distance confidence range. I wound one and it’s determined fatal buy guide I eat my tags plus it’s not the right thing to do.

Time to get practicing
 
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I have never hunted at those ranges, however I worked with two guys that did. Both of them went together every year to Montana or Colorado to hunt Elk. They regularly practiced at 7-80 yard and were very accurate at those ranges.

One Year the younger one went to the Overdraw System that was so popular back in the 90's. His speed went way up and he felt he was more accurate. However after that one hunt he got rid of it. He said where he was putting the arrow all the way to the fletching in the Ribs with his "full sized set up", he went to barely getting enough penetration with the Overdraw Lighter Arrow to get a Kill. He did but the Blades barely puncture the close side lung and it was a long wait and track.

It is the Old Law of heavier equals more Kinetic Energy, which mean deeper and better penetration.
 
Tap said:
I'd be more leery of a guide that advocates 70 yard shots on a live critter. I don't care if you can drill tacks at 100 yards, animals move. You can't count on them to remain in the same spot while your arrow flies 70 yards.
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Tap there is a huge difference in hunting in the woodlands of western Pa and hunting the more open woods of the Western Ranges. Longer than "normal" shots are the Norm out there- whether it is Archery or Gun.

Archery Shots of 60-80 yards are considered the Normal Range to those that hunt out there on a yearly basis.

While I know that doesn't fit with our 20-30 yards mentainity of the eastern Hunting Ranges, they consider it OK.
 
Deadeye said:
Tap there is a huge difference in hunting in the woodlands of western Pa and hunting the more open woods of the Western Ranges. Longer than "normal" shots are the Norm out there- whether it is Archery or Gun.

Archery Shots of 60-80 yards are considered the Normal Range to those that hunt out there on a yearly basis.

While I know that doesn't fit with our 20-30 yards mentainity of the eastern Hunting Ranges, they consider it OK.
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No it is not different. Arrow speed doesn't change on different areas of the continent. Animals do not inadvertently move during arrow flight only in the east, and they don't always stay stationary in the west. The physics of weapon performance combined with a host of other intangibles does not change because of longitude or latitude. In fact the farther the shooting distance, the greater the intangibles.
Look in any/every issue of Traditional Bowhunter magazine. There are routinely stories of guys with trad bows killing every species of animal in the world at distances under 40 yards, usually under 20 yards. They can do it because they get close. It's bowhunting. It's all about getting close.
Can and do "bowhunters" make clean kills at 80 yard distances? Sure. Is it ethical to attempt shots at that distance? Not in my book.
 
Tap said:
No it is not different. Arrow speed doesn't change on different areas of the continent. Animals do not inadvertently move during arrow flight only in the east, and they don't always stay stationary in the west. The physics of weapon performance combined with a host of other intangibles does not change because of longitude or latitude. In fact the farther the shooting distance, the greater the intangibles.
Look in any/every issue of Traditional Bowhunter magazine. There are routinely stories of guys with trad bows killing every species of animal in the world at distances under 40 yards, usually under 20 yards. They can do it because they get close. It's bowhunting. It's all about getting close.
Can and do "bowhunters" make clean kills at 80 yard distances? Sure. Is it ethical to attempt shots at that distance? Not in my book.
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Tap thanks for your views and opinions.
However you missed the point I was attempting to make. The terrain and hunting styles differ greatly between parts of the east and the west. Where shooting at longer distance is not something considered in most of the east, it is done quite regularly in the west and the more open terrain allows for it. Those guys I mentioned that went out west each year to hunt regularly took Elk at distances of 60-70 yards, yet never took a shot at home in Pa on a deer over 30.

Like many things in Hunting what one person feels is the Correct Way - another feels is Wrong.It has always been that way and most likely will continue to be long after we are gone.

Take using Dogs to Hunt for deer. In most of the Northern States it would never be considered and even to the point of shooting dogs that ran deer. Yet in many parts of the south it is considered a normal part of deer hunting.

Quite often we limit ourselves by what we have learned and accepted as fact, yet to many others they have learned differently and their fact is not the same as ours.
 
Deadeye said:
Tap thanks for your views and opinions.
However you missed the point I was attempting to make. The terrain and hunting styles differ greatly between parts of the east and the west. Where shooting at longer distance is not something considered in most of the east, it is done quite regularly in the west and the more open terrain allows for it. Those guys I mentioned that went out west each year to hunt regularly took Elk at distances of 60-70 yards, yet never took a shot at home in Pa on a deer over 30.

Like many things in Hunting what one person feels is the Correct Way - another feels is Wrong.It has always been that way and most likely will continue to be long after we are gone.

Take using Dogs to Hunt for deer. In most of the Northern States it would never be considered and even to the point of shooting dogs that ran deer. Yet in many parts of the south it is considered a normal part of deer hunting.

Quite often we limit ourselves by what we have learned and accepted as fact, yet to many others they have learned differently and their fact is not the same as ours.
Click to expand...
I don't believe I missed your point.
The distance one shoots at game should not be dictated by the available shooting lane. Just because western habitat tends to be more open isn't a valid reason to ignore the laws of physics or ignore the things we cannot control like sudden animal movement after release or sudden wind gusts and eddies.

Just because something has become "acceptable" in modern society does not make it ethical.
I've never hunted deer with a dog, but I don't believe there are any parallels between using a dog or shooting arrows 70 yard shots at an animal that can already be on the move between the time the release is triggered to the time the arrow even leaves the bow.

Peer pressure (opinions) cut both ways. They can be a positive influence or a negative influence.
I will continue to encourage ethical habits. I do not accept the premise that just because a hunter can shoot bullseyes at 100 yards, that it's proper to shoot on an animal at 70.
Hey, we see it all the time on these garbage TV shows...A guy perched in his shooting box that is a champion 3D shot blows 45 yard shots on deer. The guy chokes, or the animal moves because of influence or interaction with another deer, or, or, or....

Sorry man, 70 yard shots on critters ain't proper.
 
Sorry man, 70 yard shots on critters ain't proper.

Since that is your belief, then for you that is correct.

Personally I wouldn't shoot that far either, but then I don't practice to do it either. Way back in the early '70's with the Original Whitetail Hunter bow I could shoot very accurately at 50-60 yards. But I never shot at a deer at that range. 20-30 yards was the norm for me.
Terrain had a lot to do with it as did the places I set up to hunt in.

But just because I place those limitations on myself, I do not place them on others.

Even today with shooting a Crossbow I still do not take a shot over 35-40 yards and prefer 30. Yet I know of or read of guys that regularly take deer at 60-70 yards with both styles of bows. They practice shooting at those ranges and are comfortable with shooting at that distance.

If I was planning to hire a Guide to take me on a Western Hunt and he said be prepared to shoot 70 yards, then it would be a waste of my time and money to not do so. At least that is how I see it, others mileage may vary.
 
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