Keystone Krops

[bearcat]

Your plot looks really good. I’ve got a sandy plot with a gentle slope as well. Unfortunately, it was used as a staging area for the cedar removal crew this summer. I got some grass popping up now. What was the mix of ams, crop oil and cleth you used?


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[Mennoniteman]

Your plot looks really good. I’ve got a sandy plot with a gentle slope as well. Unfortunately, it was used as a staging area for the cedar removal crew this summer. I got some grass popping up now. What was the mix of ams, crop oil and cleth you used?


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I'd be careful not to spray everything dead, do you have anything like clover growing in this plot? With sandy soil and a slight slope you want to keep roots in the dirt at all times to get your organic matter up again.
I think that the maximum rate of clethodim is 16 oz per acre, I use 25 gallons of water per acre, 48 oz of AMS in the water first, followed by 16 oz of bean oil, and then 16 oz of Cleth, driving at 3-4 mph, adjust the pressure to make the 25 gallons reach for 1 acre. I get the best results from herbicide in clover by periodically switching to a different one, usually because of a different family of weeds showing up. Problem broadleafs like thistles and lambsquarter during periods when I have grains interseeded into the clover get Butyrac200, very tough weeds like marestail, smartweed, and stiltgrass get imazethapyr 2sl, and for grasses I use clethodim. I also have used 16 oz of glyphosate on clover with great success, but this can be tricky, it's very dependent on timely rains and temperatures etc. I'm at the point where I don't advise glyphosate on clover anymore because there's so many other options. Also, mowing at 4-6 inches high, then waiting several days to a week to spray herbicide is very effective for weed control. Most herbicide labels say to spray when weeds are 3" tall or shorter. I've heard of people who sprayed mature, two foot high cattails with clethodim and couldn't understand why they didn't get a good kill, when the endeavor was destined for failure before they even started because they didn't follow the label. My advice is to always read the label at least once to get familiarized with a new chemical. I'm not a safety freak, but I wear chemical gloves to mix and a respirator to spray. If you can smell chemicals, you are breathing and ingesting them.
Unless you are lucky enough to have a cab with air filters.

 

[bearcat]

Thanks for the info. I don’t have anything in there right now but a few grassy spots. The cedar guys pretty much destroyed anything growing in there. It was used as a place for them to burn piles and move equipment. It’s the only field I don’t have planted yet, more than likely it will get a heavy dose of cereal rye this fall


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[dogghr]

This clover plot has been giving me fits ever since I cleared the trees and limed and fertilized as per soil tests two years ago, so this is now the third summer for this plot. It had poor sandy soil, so I planted a buckwheat, annual ryegrass and clover mix to start. The annual ryegrass was a desperation measure to get something growing before the nutrients all washed away ,since this sandy plot has a slight slope
Ever since then, I have been trying to get rid of the ryegrass clumps that popped up everywhere, and seemed to be very chemical resistant. When I cleared the land in June that summer was just turning hot, and it was almost too late to get anything growing but on the other hand I couldn't afford to let it in bare dirt all summer for fear of loosing more nutrients, so all in all it was a tough start,, and then nothing that I did in the next two years seemed to turn out right, and grass was constantly on the verge of overrunning the clover. Downpours right after spraying, multiple droughts right after mowing, me living too far away and being too busy elsewhere, you name it, nothing was working well.
So about month ago I decided to really get serious with this foodplot grass problem and switch things up with a different herbicide, and now things have finally started going my way. First, I mowed everything short, left it grow for one week, then hit it with the maximum rate of AMS, crop oil, and clethodim. This seemingly invincible grass turned totally brown and melted to almost nothing in two weeks, and, while there's still a few bare spots left over from dead grass clumps, the clover looks magazine cover picture perfect from the edgeofthefield. .
The moral of this story is, after a foodplot failure knocks you down, get up and try one more time!

Very nice. How high dosage of Cleth did you use? Sprayed my nuisance plot past week, see how it does in a couple weeks.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Very nice. How high dosage of Cleth did you use? Sprayed my nuisance plot past week, see how it does in a couple weeks.

16 oz per acre

 

[dogghr]

16 oz per acre

Same for me. I typically use half that but no messing around this time. But then I also usually add shot of Gly. With the drought didn’t want to go that route. Good luck w your season.


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[Mennoniteman]

Same for me. I typically use half that but no messing around this time. But then I also usually add shot of Gly. With the drought didn’t want to go that route. Good luck w your season.


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Thanks for the "Good Luck" wishes, it looks like we are going to need it, in major league sports we'd call it a rebuilding year.

The first several times that I used glyphosate on clover it seemed like magic, the next several times that I used it I couldn't do anything right. I learned that gly on clover is very dependent on several key things; first, the temperature when applied, and then, the rainfall in the next several weeks, balanced by the amount used. There's three results based on these factors; too much rain and the gly rate too light results in nothing killed. An adequate amount with normal growing conditions kills everything except the clover, which flourishes, and, thirdly, the rate too heavy and weather too warm, followed by a drought stunts the clover and drought resistant weeds appear because of the soil exposure and lack of shading by the stunted clover. With my past experiences I'm not advising using gly on clover anymore.

A very interesting article about temperatures for chemical application in a university study that I just read about temps for gly application; gly will kill some resistant weeds like marestail if applied at around 50 degrees. When it's cold the cells in marestail can't move the active ingredient into isolation like they normally do to resist the chemical. So I thought that gly wasn't supposed to work at these cold temp ranges, go figure. Since I'm fortunate enough to have marestail I will experiment with this next spring.

 

[dogghr]

Interesting about the gly. I don't spray very often any more but Never had much problem with its results in mixtures but I've probably been lucky. Now I do know that you can burn the heck out of clover and kill most unwanted weeds by inadvertantly adding too much crop oil by mistake. Or so I've heard.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Caught this fellow pigging out on the middle of my trail at 9 am. He didn't leave until the entire cap was consumed, but the stem stayed behind. Deer obviously aren't the only ones who like mushrooms for breakfast.

 

[rusty1034]

Is that a tortoise ?


Rusty

 

[bearcat]

Box Turtle. I found one at my place in OK last year. My son did some research and said you are most likely to see them mid morning after rainstorms. That’s exactly when I found him


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[Mennoniteman]

Acorns from the chestnut oaks are falling in PA. Looks like it's going to be a good crop.

 

[howboutthemdawgs]

Acorns from the chestnut oaks are falling in PA. Looks like it's going to be a good crop.

I couldn’t pay my deer to eat chestnut oaks. Do they eat yours

 

[Mennoniteman]

I couldn’t pay my deer to eat chestnut oaks. Do they eat yours

Yes, they slurp them up like candy. These acorns are black and yellow, but at my other place the chestnut acorns are brown, I'm not exactly sure what the different subspecies is, but the yellow ones seem to get the most interest.

 

[Mennoniteman]

This is one of our fall plots, a mix of oats, rye, and brassica, all planted together at the same time around the middle of August due to time constraints. It looks nice, but this is a good example of why this combo should not have been planted together, rather, the brassica should have been seeded in July, and the grain interseeded around Labor Day.
By the time our first frost hits in the next week or two and the deer really start hitting this type of plot, the oats will be a little too big, but the brassica will still be a little small for the best attraction. It'll be interesting to see what the diners reviews will be at that point.

 

[badgerfowl]

I planted brassicas 7/27. Thinking a cover crop would be a good idea I also threw in a bag of pea/oat mix from the coop. We still haven't had a damn frost. The oats are now browning and the deer have annihilated the brassicas. Last time I'm mixing cereals w/ what should have been a primary brassica planting. I planted cereals 8/15 and 8/22 w/ just a lb or two of radish. The cereals were pretty heavy for the area I planted so it has choked the radish out a bit or the deer have demolished them. Either way, w/o a frost, those oats are getting pretty big. Hopefully the deer still have a hankering for them whenever we do get some cold weather. No threat of frost in the 14 day. BFO's I planted w/ brassicas on 7/23 are headed out. I'm thinking about throwing a bag of fertilizer I have left over on the main brassica patch w/ rain in the forecast. Maybe get a little more growth before the inevitable frost hits. Maybe sweeten them up a bit.

 

[badgerfowl]

I planted a perennial clover plot 8/7 w/ a WR cover crop. The WR hasn't gotten nearly as tall as the oats. Maybe that doesn't in a fall planting. Not a ton of experience w/ it.

 

[Elkaddict]

I’ve struggled trying to find a good mix of small grains and brassicas. Anymore, when I do my Labor Day grain/clover plantings, I throw in leftover brassica seed just to add variety. This was 3 year old turnip seed. This plot, and the others like it, are purposely planted thick because of the draw grain is until the snows bury it. As you can see, the deer keep it mowed down. Between the usage and heavy seeding of grain/clover, I don’t expect much growth. In the background, you can the remnants of last year’s planting. To the the right, you’ll notice unplanted strips of mostly clover and weeds. Next fall, these strips will be planted with my grain/clover/left over brassica mix.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I’ve struggled trying to find a good mix of small grains and brassicas. Anymore, when I do my Labor Day grain/clover plantings, I throw in leftover brassica seed just to add variety. This was 3 year old turnip seed. This plot, and the others like it, are purposely planted thick because of the draw grain is until the snows bury it. As you can see, the deer keep it mowed down. Between the usage and heavy seeding of grain/clover, I don’t expect much growth. In the background, you can the remnants of last year’s planting. To the the right, you’ll notice unplanted strips of mostly clover and weeds. Next fall, these strips will be planted with my grain/clover/left over brassica mix.View attachment 22711

That's a nice looking plot, you're in the Catskills and I thought labor day is too late to plant brassicas in PA. What kind of clover do you plant on Labor day?

 

[Elkaddict]

Labor Day is too late for stand alone brassicas….I think third week of July is optimal. I plant a mix of medium red and ladino clovers (with chicory if I have any (I didn’t this year)). With a typical frost of 9/27, I loose 1/2 of planted clover most years to winter kill. I’m thinking this exceptionally warm fall may give the clover a better chance. Interestingly, when I do plant the chicory, I’ve found it far less likely to winter kill the first year.
As the photo show, the brassica growth is quite stunted. This is from being overcrowded with the clover/grain, and heavily browsed. Uncrowded brassica planted this late would be 6-8” tall (it would be much taller if the plot had been fertilized which this was not). I figured I had nothing to loose with 3yr old seed laying around.