dogghr
Well-Known Member
Whats this barber thing you speak of?? Haven't needed one of them for quite a while!!
How Does He know?
- Thread starter Bowriter
- Start date
Drycreek
Well-Known Member
I don't believe it's always connected to hunter intrusion either. I think some of it is due to the rut and the build-up to the rut, and the change of food sources. For instance, I hunt a 16,000 acre property that we have 2,500 acres of. My personal part of that place is a corner that has a high fence on two sides. We are not high fenced but some neighboring places are to the N and W. My corner encompasses probably 300 acres that absolutely nobody hunts besides me. I don't hunt it much because it's two hours away and I have other spots closer to me, and if I hunt there, I have to stay there. Now if it's only human intrusion that makes the bucks hide, then my 300 acre corner, (which BTW looks just like the rest of the place), should be a little sanctuary, but the cameras I have on my food plots and trails say different. The bucks get less and less visible (in the daytime) whether I'm there or not. They don't completely disappear, they just alter their routines and possibly their routes and I don't get as many daytime pics. Some of it IMO, is the seek phase kicking in, some of it is due to acorn drop, some of it is increased vehicle traffic during the hour before daylight, (and they dang well know what that means), and some of it is the rut itself when the does are running to cover because they're not ready to breed. As in all things, it's not just one reason, and they don't all disappear, they just alter their movements.
LOL- Two factors figure into this. (1) The wind is seldom is ever steady. It swirls and is in no way, dependable. (2) Deer where I hunt, smell, see and hear man, every day. I hunt clean-as in-I shower before every hunt, wash and dry my clothes in the sun after every hunt and never wear rubber boots. In fact, 99% of the time, I hunt in a tennis shoe type thing. But-I never wear those shoes except to hunt or wade a creek, fishing. Therefore, my scent is minimal as compared to what deer are use to.
No lie-Just fact. In the last 10-years, I have had deer spook at several things. But as far as I can tell, never from any scent problem. Sure, they probably do smell me. But I have yet to see one spook because of smelling me or where I walked.
Now. A disclaimer. Did I hunt this way when I was "trophy" hunting? No. But seldom did I wear rubber boots unless I was wading in water. When your target animal is an 18-month old doe, you don't worry about it too much. However, I did kill a mature buck, this year, walking in on the same trail I walked in on, less than 45-minutes earlier.
No lie-Just fact. In the last 10-years, I have had deer spook at several things. But as far as I can tell, never from any scent problem. Sure, they probably do smell me. But I have yet to see one spook because of smelling me or where I walked.
Now. A disclaimer. Did I hunt this way when I was "trophy" hunting? No. But seldom did I wear rubber boots unless I was wading in water. When your target animal is an 18-month old doe, you don't worry about it too much. However, I did kill a mature buck, this year, walking in on the same trail I walked in on, less than 45-minutes earlier.
Jeff H
Well-Known Member
Earlier this year My son Jack and I went out to do some maintenance on a box blind. It was midday and we had an East wind. My property lies North-South and all of my ingress/egress is from the East. As we approached the field where the box blind was there was a small 6 point 90 yards from us to our West. He was facing North. Our scent should have been streaming about 15 yards behind him as we stood behind a small group of trees. The 6 point fed contently as we watched him. I gave Jack a lesson on knowing the wind direction as I told him to move North about 10 yards and watch the deer's reaction. Jack moved in behind another tree and 1 minute later that little buck stuck his nose up in the air then slowly but deliberately left the field. No snort, no white flag but he left the area.
We were not seen. I believe we just too close for his comfort zone.
For the record Jack is a typical 15 year old boy who's sock smell alone could turn a skunk away.
I've also experienced two twin button bucks get downwind of me. One got real nervous and was intent on finding the source. The other seemed to be clueless. So I also believe each deer has a different level of tolerance.
Just my experiences.
We were not seen. I believe we just too close for his comfort zone.
For the record Jack is a typical 15 year old boy who's sock smell alone could turn a skunk away.
I've also experienced two twin button bucks get downwind of me. One got real nervous and was intent on finding the source. The other seemed to be clueless. So I also believe each deer has a different level of tolerance.
Just my experiences.
Who knows where a wind tendril goes? The wind can be blowing directly toward a deer, but the wind may be 10-feet over their heads. Buy a smoke bomb. Set it off a ground level. Then, climb a tree and watch where the smoke goes. Use puff balls. Turn them loose out of tree stands and watch. An animal may 50-yards, directly downwind of you and never have a chance to smell you. I have seen scent trails go 100-degrees upwind in canyon country. Wind direction is just one factor in a puzzle, when it comes to hunting mature animals. Most hunters, over-think it.
If I had to list the top ingredients of hunting mature, trophy animals, probably, wind direction would be third or fourth on the list. For sure, #1, would be knowledge of the animal. #2 would be food preferences. #3 would be how they travel and why. I don't care how an animal travels or where. I can find a way to hunt them. While many hunters, are figuring out how an animal travels and how to put up a stand and what wind to hunt him on. And looking at pictures etc. I'll go hunt him...if he is not nocturnal. There are over a dozen tools in the bag of trophy hunting tricks. Wind is just one of them. When that becomes your primary worry...you are screwed. Just my opinion.
If I had to list the top ingredients of hunting mature, trophy animals, probably, wind direction would be third or fourth on the list. For sure, #1, would be knowledge of the animal. #2 would be food preferences. #3 would be how they travel and why. I don't care how an animal travels or where. I can find a way to hunt them. While many hunters, are figuring out how an animal travels and how to put up a stand and what wind to hunt him on. And looking at pictures etc. I'll go hunt him...if he is not nocturnal. There are over a dozen tools in the bag of trophy hunting tricks. Wind is just one of them. When that becomes your primary worry...you are screwed. Just my opinion.
Chipdasqrrl
Active Member
Watching young deer is always a treat! I love getting videos in August of Fawns running circles around their momma in a food plot
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
I appreciate your input and ideas, and I'm always looking to learn something new, but me and most of my deer hunting buddies aren't going to agree with your ideas on wind importance. Don't take this the wrong way, you've said some good stuff here, and I'm not trying to minimize that. But here's a typical hunting scenario that I've experienced a hundred times; we do your #1- obtain knowledge of where a big buck is at. Follow that up with #2- figure out what and where he is eating. Then do #3- learn what his travel route is from his bedding area to the food source. None of these are more important or less important, these are just necessary things, done in order, that a real trophy hunter does to take away the randomness of the average meat hunter and set the table for the actual planning of the stakeout to nail the big one.Who knows where a wind tendril goes? The wind can be blowing directly toward a deer, but the wind may be 10-feet over their heads. Buy a smoke bomb. Set it off a ground level. Then, climb a tree and watch where the smoke goes. Use puff balls. Turn them loose out of tree stands and watch. An animal may 50-yards, directly downwind of you and never have a chance to smell you. I have seen scent trails go 100-degrees upwind in canyon country. Wind direction is just one factor in a puzzle, when it comes to hunting mature animals. Most hunters, over-think it.
If I had to list the top ingredients of hunting mature, trophy animals, probably, wind direction would be third or fourth on the list. For sure, #1, would be knowledge of the animal. #2 would be food preferences. #3 would be how they travel and why. I don't care how an animal travels or where. I can find a way to hunt them. While many hunters, are figuring out how an animal travels and how to put up a stand and what wind to hunt him on. And looking at pictures etc. I'll go hunt him...if he is not nocturnal. There are over a dozen tools in the bag of trophy hunting tricks. Wind is just one of them. When that becomes your primary worry...you are screwed. Just my opinion.
Now we're ready to hunt him, and what is the most important thing? Figuring out where we are going to set up. And what is the most important thing in deciding where to set up? The #1 most important thing is the wind direction. If you disagree with that you haven't hunted many big bucks yet, and won't be seeing many either.
As you pointed out, wind direction can be fickle, often to our dismay and chagrin. That's why it's tough hunting in a hollow and hunters try to set up on the shoulder of a ridge. There's many other important things that come into play at the execution stage, including egress, weapons, concealment etc. but wind direction is still second to none. Underestimating a whitetails nose is a big mistake.
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Drycreek
Well-Known Member
Although I don’t call myself a trophy hunter, I only target bucks 3.5 or older depending on where I hunt and I agree with all you’ve said. I would add that ingress and egress are equally important.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I have a tendency to mistake egress when I mean ingress, in construction we don't use the term ingress because the main concern is getting out. But here, hopefully we don't need to worry about getting out because we are going to set up right and shoot him on the first sit
P.S. 3.5 yr old bucks? You're a trophy hunter!
Drycreek
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I have a tendency to mistake egress when I mean ingress, in construction we don't use the term ingress because the main concern is getting out. But here, hopefully we don't need to worry about getting out because we are going to set up right and shoot him on the first sit
P.S. 3.5 yr old bucks? You're a trophy hunter!
Not really. I'm a deer hunter who values the process first, the meat second, and the antlers third. That's why I generally shoot two or three does for every buck, and spend as much time (more?) on a tractor as I do in a deer stand.
Apparently, some of you missed the point I made when I said, I no longer trophy hunt. If I were hunting a mature buck, or cared about killing one, I thought I made it plain, I regard wind direction and other various forms of concealment as important. But it is also important to understand what scent does. Not wind direction, scent. The two are not always the same. Ingress and egress are a way saying how I get in and out. How I get in, if I were hunting a mature buck, would be important. How I got out, not so much so. For me...just me, when I was hunting mature bucks, one of the most important factors was being able to get to the stand and in it, ready to hunt, without using a light. I also tried to not ever get into a stand more than 15-minutes before shooting light. The reason for that would take a whole page.
Getting out, for me, is just as important as getting in. If every time I get out of my stand I am spooking deer it won’t be but just a little bit before those deer are completely nocturnal...
As far as getting in I try to get into my stand and hour before I can see. I have been able to take some of the largest deer I have ever gotten trail cam footage of by doing this...I don’t know how many times I have been the first shot I have heard during muzzleloader or rifle season by doing it this way. I suspect you are going to allude to the fact that I am letting my scent totally envelope the area and the deer will sneak off before I ever even see them (and that may be so) but somehow most of the time the deer I want wasn’t one of the sneakers...my friend on our deer lease is a “get in my stand just when you can almost see” kind of guy and my track record on the hour before you can see is running circles around his...
Okie-the secret is, do what works best for you. Of the 60 or so, mature bucks I have killed in 64-years of hunting, I can think of only three that I killed at first light. The huge majority were killed between 7:30 and 9:30 in the morning. This is true, in a large part, because I was hunting travel patterns and where I was hunting, was what I refer to as a second location. Neither feeding nor bedding area. I did discover a big uptick in sightings when I quit using a light to go in. But again, do what works for you. I also suspect, the fact you are killing more deer than the guy who goes in when he can see, has nothing to do with what time he goes in.
I do not use a light to go in as well unless it is a moonless night and then I use a small red beam light that only shows me where to put my feet. I don’t know how many deer I have snuck past like this while I was moving through the woods. I could hear the deer but they didn’t hear or see me...best one I know of is one morning I eased to my stand just like normal and got up into it silently. Every few minutes I could hear a deer “cough” just below me to my left. It was a wet morning and as the sky started getting lighter I could see 6 does bedded 15 yards from me at the place where I kept hearing the “cough”. They eventually got up about 5 minutes after shooting light, stretched, and moved off through the woods browsing and picking up acorns. They were there the entire time as I eased up with red light on, climbed the tree, and got situated with my bow...Okie-the secret is, do what works best for you. Of the 60 or so, mature bucks I have killed in 64-years of hunting, I can think of only three that I killed at first light. The huge majority were killed between 7:30 and 9:30 in the morning. This is true, in a large part, because I was hunting travel patterns and where I was hunting, was what I refer to as a second location. Neither feeding nor bedding area. I did discover a big uptick in sightings when I quit using a light to go in. But again, do what works for you. I also suspect, the fact you are killing more deer than the guy who goes in when he can see, has nothing to do with what time he goes in.
Deer can't count. Two people walk in. One walks out-not sneaking, just walking. maybe he has a walking stick in his hand, giving 3 or 4 legs-steps. Deer can't count. Don't know if one or two walked out. For that reason, when working in the big, Midwest guide service, I always walked my hunters to the stand. It was bow hunting only, we took 20-22 clients a year, averaged 50% success on P&Y bucks.
In agricultural or densely populated areas, deer hear, see and smell man everyday. But the cannot count. Just think about it.
In agricultural or densely populated areas, deer hear, see and smell man everyday. But the cannot count. Just think about it.
That’s cool if you have somebody to go with you like I never do...
Beechnut
Member
I know this is sort of off topic but we generally see our best bucks, in groups, on camera in August, during the day, in full velvet, on the verge of shedding the velvet. As soon as that velvet is shed, it's on. Very few pics, if any, of those bucks again on camera. And rarely do we see them during hunting season. When the velvet comes off, it's like the boxing gloves are on and they scatter.
Sorry if you all realized this already.
Sorry if you all realized this already.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
The amount and size of deer you have at your place, I'll gladly go with you anytime.
A good and valid observation. The goal is now to figure out how to see some of those guys in hunting season when it counts. Better plots/habitat or maybe less pressure? The big factor is that we are in competition with all of our neighbors to provide the best of the above. If one of the neighbors has us beat on better plots/habitat or less pressure we might be losing the attraction game at the time when it counts the most, when you can legally shoot them. I try to hold deer exclusively on my own acres. But several spots have property lines to close, so that my deer spend part of their time on other people's land. But most of these conditions don't effect our hunting too much because we know how to win this game when the season is open. Most average hunters don't understand the basics of deer management and will go scouting and hanging stands the week before and deer season, effectively forcing those deer to change landlords permanently during hunting season. And I try to have the accommodations and amenities available that they are looking for, which is mostly peace and quiet. If I can convince my children to stay out of the woods...
