Forest to Fork Movement.......

[MarkDarvin]

Can you explain that further? Not sure I follow that line of thinking. If someone owns 400 acres and shoots 6 does/year for the freezer I don’t see how they are getting more than giving. Even if they’re not deliberately doing anything for their deer. In a lot areas they’d barley be maintaining. Other areas they could be shooting too many.

Deer population density varies greatly and some areas all but require recreational meat hunting to keep populations at a sustainable level. Obviously examples to the contrary are easily cited, just don’t think your statement is always accurate.
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Sure.

The original article talks about attracting foodie hipsters to the woods seeking high quality organic food. Food is nothing more than another transaction. We can pay $1/lb for whore house chicken, or gradually raise our willingness to pay based on what we want. Whore house pork $1.50/lb, beef $2.50/lb etc.

If the angle is to attract people to the woods for the purpose of taking meat, it only works as long as it delivers more value than they're laying out in cost to get it. It'll work great where there is an abundance of deer. It will be catastrophe where there are not enough deer. I'm in a place where there are not enough deer to fill freezers, and meat people are very frustrated. Meaters don't just stop when the population reaches balance, they go until there are no longer deer to be had.

 

[Mennoniteman]

This topic identifies the core reason that I manage land for wildlife; because the state won't. Our (most on this forum) common goal is conservation. A meat hunters' goal is filling the freezer. But as long as they abide by the rules we really don't even have the right to complain. Hence the reason that many of us own/control hundreds of acres, it's our only option to conserve resources from all of the takers out there.
I only need a few acres for myself to hunt on. I need the other 700 to keep the meat hunters away.

 

[weekender21]

Sure.

The original article talks about attracting foodie hipsters to the woods seeking high quality organic food. Food is nothing more than another transaction. We can pay $1/lb for whore house chicken, or gradually raise our willingness to pay based on what we want. Whore house pork $1.50/lb, beef $2.50/lb etc.

If the angle is to attract people to the woods for the purpose of taking meat, it only works as long as it delivers more value than they're laying out in cost to get it. It'll work great where there is an abundance of deer. It will be catastrophe where there are not enough deer. I'm in a place where there are not enough deer to fill freezers, and meat people are very frustrated. Meaters don't just stop when the population reaches balance, they go until there are no longer deer to be had.

Gotcha. I understand where you’re coming from with that. Population studies and hunting quotas are the direct responsibility of your state game agency. No need to derail this thread on their competency or lack of in your area but...it is their job to ensure deer aren’t hunted to extinction.


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[MarkDarvin]

Gotcha. I understand where you’re coming from with that. Population studies and hunting quotas are the direct responsibility of your state game agency. No need to derail this thread on their competency or lack of in your area but...it is their job to ensure deer aren’t hunted to extinction.


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But that’s just it, it’s not their job to protect deer. It’s their job to ensure deer don’t cause any problems. “Social” deer management requires non-deer stakeholders to have a seat at the table. 95% of people are adversely affected by the existence of deer. Ag, forestry, auto, homeowners, and health care are all supposedly hurt by strong deer populations.

Beans get eaten, pines get eaten, women smashing vans into deer, landscapes and gardens eaten, and ticks transmitting lime disease. No other department is equipped to prevent those issues for 95% of the public.


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[MarkDarvin]

This really only matters in states where hunters have given all their power away to fast talkin bureaucrats. If your state hasn’t gone all in on campaigning against the whitetail, I could see how this sounds like kookery.


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[Mennoniteman]

But that’s just it, it’s not their job to protect deer. It’s their job to ensure deer don’t cause any problems. “Social” deer management requires non-deer stakeholders to have a seat at the table. 95% of people are adversely affected by the existence of deer. Ag, forestry, auto, homeowners, and health care are all supposedly hurt by strong deer populations.

Beans get eaten, pines get eaten, women smashing vans into deer, landscapes and gardens eaten, and ticks transmitting lime disease. No other department is equipped to prevent those issues for 95% of the public.


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You have really clarified where our progressive society is at in living with wild creatures, there isn't room for wild things anymore. Most people will continue to be in a state of denial, but I truly believe that this is more and more the reality of the modern trend of wildlife management.

 

[snowracerh]

Man i only have 30 acres but in a very rural area thats 40% ag and 60% timber. I shoot 2-3 deer off that piece per year and it still seems like thendoe population is growing. It sounds like a lot of you have a shortage of deer, but I am struggling to understand how that is possible with the quality of habitat and quantity of acres many of you have. Maybe i am mis interpreting or deer populations are above average in my area....

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[snowracerh]

This topic identifies the core reason that I manage land for wildlife; because the state won't. Our (most on this forum) common goal is conservation. A meat hunters' goal is filling the freezer. But as long as they abide by the rules we really don't even have the right to complain. Hence the reason that many of us own/control hundreds of acres, it's our only option to conserve resources from all of the takers out there.
I only need a few acres for myself to hunt on. I need the other 700 to keep the meat hunters away.

Agree 100%. Simply put, its a love for our land, where we grew up, respecting our creator, and wanting something better to pass on to our children

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[Chipdasqrrl]

Man i only have 30 acres but in a very rural area thats 40% ag and 60% timber. I shoot 2-3 deer off that piece per year and it still seems like thendoe population is growing. It sounds like a lot of you have a shortage of deer, but I am struggling to understand how that is possible with the quality of habitat and quantity of acres many of you have. Maybe i am mis interpreting or deer populations are above average in my area....

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My area is loaded with hunters and not much ag. Michigan has declared an all out war against does, especially since CWD has been found.
People never used to shoot does around here. Since 2012 or so, I’d say your average 80 acre property loaded with hunters takes 3-6 deer (mostly does). I was definitely a part of that. I’d say my buck to doe ratio went from 15 does to 1 buck, to about a 1:1 ratio.
The result is that there’s barely any deer around me now. The deer that are left are very healthy because they don’t have much competition for food.. but it also means I can go a whole week and only see a couple deer instead of 10-20 per day like 10 years ago. Currently I’m seeing a group of 6 does and about 8 bucks on camera.
This year people finally started to lay off of the does in hopes of reloading our deer population.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Man i only have 30 acres but in a very rural area thats 40% ag and 60% timber. I shoot 2-3 deer off that piece per year and it still seems like thendoe population is growing. It sounds like a lot of you have a shortage of deer, but I am struggling to understand how that is possible with the quality of habitat and quantity of acres many of you have. Maybe i am mis interpreting or deer populations are above average in my area....

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I'll help you understand the situation in PA; you are correct, on the large blocks of private acres that me and my friends manage there are a plenty of deer. On the thousands of acres of public land just a few miles away that some of my other friends hunt there are very few deer. The reasons are as stated by Markdarwin.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Man i only have 30 acres but in a very rural area thats 40% ag and 60% timber. I shoot 2-3 deer off that piece per year and it still seems like thendoe population is growing. It sounds like a lot of you have a shortage of deer, but I am struggling to understand how that is possible with the quality of habitat and quantity of acres many of you have. Maybe i am mis interpreting or deer populations are above average in my area....
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Where I hunt in MN, it's about 85% public land. I'd bet of that 85%, half of it never gets a foot set on it. However that habitat is so old that the forest floor is gone, and the pulp trees are fallling down from old age. There is no cover and no food in those forests. If logging dies back any further, there won't be any resetting of the ecosystem.

My point is, there is a ton of unhunted land by me, but the condition is so bad that the deer can't bridge the gap in the winter. If we took one doe off every third 40 each year, our herd would be snuffed out in no time.

 

[gasman]

The statement about private land having plenty of deer and public land being a game desert is the example of hunting following the European example of becoming a rich mans sport and leading to less hunters participating. Hunting will continue to decrease as more of the baby boomer age out. Many of the younger hunters participate because dad or grandpa still goes. Once they quit going the group falls apart and the cabin or hunting land is sold not long after. How many of the "meat hunters" are going to go out and shoot all of the deer available? If they are concerned about where their food comes from they will most likely be concerned about healthy ecosystems. How many member of this forum that respect the animal only take the back quarters and backstraps from the deer, or donate the deer they shoot to food pantries.

 

[weekender21]

The statement about private land having plenty of deer and public land being a game desert is the example of hunting following the European example of becoming a rich mans sport and leading to less hunters participating. Hunting will continue to decrease as more of the baby boomer age out. Many of the younger hunters participate because dad or grandpa still goes. Once they quit going the group falls apart and the cabin or hunting land is sold not long after. How many of the "meat hunters" are going to go out and shoot all of the deer available? If they are concerned about where their food comes from they will most likely be concerned about healthy ecosystems. How many member of this forum that respect the animal only take the back quarters and backstraps from the deer, or donate the deer they shoot to food pantries.

That's the more likely scenario IMO, eventually there will be plenty of deer and not enough hunters. I guess it's possible that decreasing habitat solves that potential problem.

I completely agree that most of the "meat hunters" concerned about where their food comes from are also very concerned about managing renewable resources. Hard to have one without the other. Like anything else it takes education but with a simple google search all the information is available from sources that include this forum.

 

[MarkDarvin]

That's the more likely scenario IMO, eventually there will be plenty of deer and not enough hunters. I guess it's possible that decreasing habitat solves that potential problem.

I completely agree that most of the "meat hunters" concerned about where their food comes from are also very concerned about managing renewable resources. Hard to have one without the other. Like anything else it takes education but with a simple google search all the information is available from sources that include this forum.

You can't eat conservation.