Evaluating timber.. Hard to tell what’s what

[Chipdasqrrl]

Could use some help figuring out what these trees are. I know none of them are oaks. I can’t tell the difference between different types of maples and I think some of them might be black cherry.




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[snowracerh]

1st picture is black cherry. The 3rd may be an ironwood

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[Buckly]

First picture is black cherry, second looks like Ash and third is soft maple.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Cherry, ash, maple, cherry, maple. The cherry is a valuable timber tree, plus deer will browse the sprouts and eat the dropped cherries, you can hear them eat cherries in the dark because of the loud crunching noises from them chomping on the seeds. The ash will be dead soon if it isn't already from the ash tree borers. This mature soft maple creates too much shade to allow anything good to grow and is about worthless for anything except making paper, although deer will readily browse the sprouts and buds, making it an excellent tree to hingecut. Soft maple is almost like a weed in the woods, and is often the predominant tree species in a woods that has been highgraded too often. A timber stand improvement (TSI) often focuses on eliminating soft maples and similar species, and establishing more valuable trees like oak and cherry. If you have too many of these your timberland needs help. Any pics of oaks?

 

[Chainsaw]

There is always a lot of variables and buts to consider on what trees to save and what to try to reduce. For example cherry is sometimes valuable and sometimes not. When my woods were cut in 2014, 15 and 2016, cherry was not in demand. Prices were 1/2 of ash. Thus we left much of the better cherry trees standing. Hard maple also called sugar maple/rock maple was in demand. We cut it hard to open up the forest and make some dollars. Soft maple on the other hand was worth little (45 cents per foot delivered to the mill). We took all of the mature trees but did not try to eliminate it because it grows where cherry, hard maple and other trees do not. So though soft maple is a low value tree it in some cases provides the highest value per acre that the particular parcel is capable of delivering. Put all of the hard/rock/sugar maple you want in a swamp or on the edge of a swamp and it will likely never grow to produce even pennies of saw timber. I agree with Mennoniteman where he is referring to soft maples growing in drier areas that could be growing hard maples; reduce the soft maple population. However in the swamps and swamp edges, cut all of the soft maples and the money stream dries up.

 

[Chipdasqrrl]

Cherry, ash, maple, cherry, maple. The cherry is a valuable timber tree, plus deer will browse the sprouts and eat the dropped cherries, you can hear them eat cherries in the dark because of the loud crunching noises from them chomping on the seeds. The ash will be dead soon if it isn't already from the ash tree borers. This mature soft maple creates too much shade to allow anything good to grow and is about worthless for anything except making paper, although deer will readily browse the sprouts and buds, making it an excellent tree to hingecut. Soft maple is almost like a weed in the woods, and is often the predominant tree species in a woods that has been highgraded too often. A timber stand improvement (TSI) often focuses on eliminating soft maples and similar species, and establishing more valuable trees like oak and cherry. If you have too many of these your timberland needs help. Any pics of oaks?

No naturally occurring oaks around which is pretty weird. The few that have been planted by man are growing just fine though. I think it’s because maple grows so well here, and it would’ve outcompeted any oaks before logging took place.

The ash is a giant, the base in the picture measured 26 inches. I haven’t seen any others nearby so maybe it will be safe from the ash borer.


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[Chipdasqrrl]

All good information. This area is in bad need of TSI, and what you guys said shows why it needs it. This is a high ground area surrounded by swamp that has been overlooked for logging because it is separated from the other timber. Never once been logged that I know of. I will build a little access road and have it logged within the next few years along with the rest of the woods. There are around 100 good trees between 16-24 inches wide


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[Dogshooter]

The tree all are saying is ash is actually an American Basswood.

Little lumber value in basswood

 

[Mennoniteman]

As any tree expert will tell you, ash and basswood are very difficult to tell apart in the winter by only seeing the bark, and not cutting it. But basswood has straigher grain, with flatter ridgetops on the bark. I have a Philadelphia cheese steak that says it's an ash.

 

[Chainsaw]

I love Philly cheese steaks but I'd bet it to be an ash as well.

 

[Dogshooter]

Ill take that bet

All 3 trees in that pic are from the same stump....the small pole size tree to the right looks 100% like a young basswood to me.

Chip, take another pic of the leaves in May and report back

 

[Chipdasqrrl]

Well here is another picture of it. Hope this one might help.. yes they all appear to be connected. I’ll try to remember to come back to this post in May


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[Dogshooter]

I like my cheesesteak with onions and peppers

 

[Chipdasqrrl]

Hmmmm... I’ve heard that basswood is a highly preferred browse to deer, any truth to that?


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[Chipdasqrrl]

Hmmmm... I’ve heard that basswood is a highly preferred browse to deer, any truth to that?


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Also curious about black cherry browse by deer

 

[Chainsaw]

Below is a copy of the browse preference sheet created by NY DEC and on their website. Of the browse I'm familiar with it all makes sense except for bush Honeysuckle. It is listed as readily eaten but the ones here show no signs of browse and I check them every spring. They may eat the leaves and I would miss that.

Winter Deer Foods
The following is a partial listing of tree and shrub species that are eaten by deer in the winter, arranged in order of quality and preference. This listing is based on thousands of observations in deer wintering areas over many years from all parts of New York State.

Winter Deer Food
Preferred or Best Liked
Cedar, white or arborvitae Yew Apple
Sassafras Mountain maple Maples*
Wintergreen Witch hobble Flowering dogwood
Alternate leaved dogwood Basswood Staghorn sumac
Second Choice
Elderberry Red berried elder Mountain ash
Highbush cranberry Highbush blueberry Willow*
Silky dogwood Red osier dogwood Honeysuckle
Nannyberry Cucumber tree Hemlock
Wild raisin Arbutus
Readily Eaten
White ash Sugar maple Oaks*
Black birch Yellow birch Hickory
American chestnut Black cherry Witch hazel
Spicebush Choke cherry Elm
Black walnut Shadbush, Winterberry Lowbush blueberry
Butternut Black ash Hazelnut
Wild grape Bush honeysuckle Leatherwood
Starvation or Poor Food
Scotch pine** Pitch pine** White pine**
Red pine** Beech Aspen or poplar
Mountain laurel** Rhododendron** Gray birch
Paper birch Musclewood (Blue beech) Ironwood (Hop hornbeam)
Spruces Alder Black locust
Grey-stemmed dogwood Red cedar Balsam**
Raspberry and blackberry Sweet fern Pin cherry
Sheep laurel Tamarack Gooseberry (current)*
Buckthorn Hawthorn
*There is considerable difference in palatability and preference of the different species of this genus.

**This species is often browsed heavily enough to appear to be second choice food in areas where winter food is inadequate.

 

[Dogshooter]

I've seen where deer will browse basswood buds after trees are cut down in the winter for sure...but they will eat most anything in the winter.

Basswood (and Cherry) will stump sprout after cut as well and the deer hammer those stump sprouts, they usually wont get more than a few feet tall and they eat them right down to the stump.

Its always good to have some diversity of tree species on a chunk of land...both for the critters using them and to have some protection from insects and diseases. Think if you had 90 percent ash on your property and Emerald Ash Borer came through...that would be a bad deal.

Ia always see where folks that want deer habitat want to keep all the oaks and nothing else. Could be setting up for failure if something were to get established that kills all the oaks. Diversity is key.

 

[Reagan]

Below is a copy of the browse preference sheet created by NY DEC and on their website. Of the browse I'm familiar with it all makes sense except for bush Honeysuckle. It is listed as readily eaten but the ones here show no signs of browse and I check them every spring. They may eat the leaves and I would miss that.

Winter Deer Foods
The following is a partial listing of tree and shrub species that are eaten by deer in the winter, arranged in order of quality and preference. This listing is based on thousands of observations in deer wintering areas over many years from all parts of New York State.

Winter Deer Food
Preferred or Best Liked
Cedar, white or arborvitae Yew Apple
Sassafras Mountain maple Maples*
Wintergreen Witch hobble Flowering dogwood
Alternate leaved dogwood Basswood Staghorn sumac
Second Choice
Elderberry Red berried elder Mountain ash
Highbush cranberry Highbush blueberry Willow*
Silky dogwood Red osier dogwood Honeysuckle
Nannyberry Cucumber tree Hemlock
Wild raisin Arbutus
Readily Eaten
White ash Sugar maple Oaks*
Black birch Yellow birch Hickory
American chestnut Black cherry Witch hazel
Spicebush Choke cherry Elm
Black walnut Shadbush, Winterberry Lowbush blueberry
Butternut Black ash Hazelnut
Wild grape Bush honeysuckle Leatherwood
Starvation or Poor Food
Scotch pine** Pitch pine** White pine**
Red pine** Beech Aspen or poplar
Mountain laurel** Rhododendron** Gray birch
Paper birch Musclewood (Blue beech) Ironwood (Hop hornbeam)
Spruces Alder Black locust
Grey-stemmed dogwood Red cedar Balsam**
Raspberry and blackberry Sweet fern Pin cherry
Sheep laurel Tamarack Gooseberry (current)*
Buckthorn Hawthorn
*There is considerable difference in palatability and preference of the different species of this genus.

**This species is often browsed heavily enough to appear to be second choice food in areas where winter food is inadequate.

Deer will eat Japanese Honeysuckle which is the vine type of honeysuckle that can grow thick enough to choke out competition.

They do not eat Bush Honeysuckle which can grow into a tree.


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[Mennoniteman]

Deer will eat Japanese Honeysuckle which is the vine type of honeysuckle that can grow thick enough to choke out competition.

They do not eat Bush Honeysuckle which can grow into a tree.


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Would you advise planting vine honeysuckle for deer?

 

[Reagan]

No.

I would plant a native plant before Honeysuckle. But I don’t think it is as bad as many invasives that are out there.

It’s all over my area and I see where it is browsed a lot in winter.


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