Eastern red cedar and fruit trees - just how big a deal is it???

[j-bird]

OK - I have some eastern red cedar I want to transplant for some cover, but I also have some apples trees (people eating kind not deer kind) that have just started to produce fruit last year. I want to know just how bad of a threat cedars are to apples trees. I know they can transmit/carry CAR - but I have not experienced that first hand thus far that I am aware of. Is there a safe distance????

 

[OkieKubota]

I read 4.5 miles...having said that I have ERC within 50 yards of my trees and have never seen any Cedar Rust on them...

 

[dogdoc]

It all depends on the variety of the apple trees. I cut down every cedar I see (or at least try) but in no way could I prevent CAR from spreading to my apples. Tons of cedars on neighbors property also. ERC is not a tree I would plant but not everyone here would agree with that.

 

[Native Hunter]

I agree with Johnny that you are talking miles, and I agree with Todd that it depends on the variety.

I divide apple varieties into three categories when it comes to CAR:

1. Little if any visible signs despite being close to cedar trees.
2. Significant signs, but the cultivar generally has the vigor to go ahead and produce a decent crop despite being affected. Overall tree health isn't affected.
3. Severely affected to the point that tree health becomes a factor and little if any worthwhile cropping. Spraying is needed to maintain tree health and produce good crops.

Keep in mind that this is MY personal scale and not anything from the apple jockey crowd.

Also keep in mind that weather and location have a great deal to do with the above. I can tell you that CAR can be bad in my area. I have a Goldrush that is big enough to be cropping and hasn't yet. It looks bad each year. It gets two more years to show me it is #2 instead of #3 and I will be topworking it if it can't make the grade.

Finally, I know for a fact that both CAR and FB can affect tree health more severely on dwarf and semi dwarf than some cultivars grown on their own roots.

Best wishes...............

 

[Native Hunter]

Just as an illustration, I dug this old picture out. The big evergreen tree in the background is an Eastern Red Cedar. You can see from the picture that the apple tree is doing just fine without any spraying or special care. That's because it is a #1 - although, if you look closely you can see some minor spotting on the leaves. Hope this helps.......

 

[buckdeer1]

If you didn't plant CAR resistant trees then you could spray and it's not that tough,mine get a few spots but no big deal and I have planted alot of cedars in the last several years

 

[Turkey Creek]

There are a number of varieties that are not do not get CAR and as buckdeer1 just mentioned CAR is one of the easier diseases to control on apples with minimal spraying.

 

[j-bird]

Well I got cedar a lot closer than 4.5 miles! The neighbors have them and to be honest I like them in the right place under the right conditions. I guess I will move forward with my transplanting of the cedar as I want and if push comes to shove I can always graft different varieties to my existing fruit trees or simply give them a good spray every year. I just didn't want to create my own nightmare......

 

[g squared 23]

So yes, a spore than travel 4.5 miles can theoretically infect a susceptible tree, but isn't the response and the severity of the infection concentration dependant? Meaning do more red cedars in close proximity severely increase the dose that the apple trees are exposed to in a linear proportional fashion?

Because saying the neighbors have some and my trees are stunted but alive I would ASSUME (I don't know, I'm asking) is a different story than planting red cedars in the close vicinity of susceptible apple trees. Also, prevailing wind directions I would think would have a significant effect, as in most places apples planted west of cedars wouldn't get as near a high dose as the opposite scenario.

 

[Chainsaw]

So yes, a spore than travel 4.5 miles can theoretically infect a susceptible tree, but isn't the response and the severity of the infection concentration dependant? Meaning do more red cedars in close proximity severely increase the dose that the apple trees are exposed to in a linear proportional fashion?

Because saying the neighbors have some and my trees are stunted but alive I would ASSUME (I don't know, I'm asking) is a different story than planting red cedars in the close vicinity of susceptible apple trees. Also, prevailing wind directions I would think would have a significant effect, as in most places apples planted west of cedars wouldn't get as near a high dose as the opposite scenario.

Logically that makes a lot of sense that more cedars equals more galls and thus more spores and more damaged apple trees from cedar rust.. However there is an apple tree here rooted 3 ft. from this cedar tree which has over one hundred very active rust galls on it. Over a hundred rust galls is an extreme amount of rust galls on one cedar tree for this property. This tree regularly is rust gall filled each year.




The apple tree rooted three feet away and actually intertwined in this rust infected cedar tree put up with the high rust gall volume and extremely close proximity just fine. Apparently in the case of this example an extreme amount of cedar spore had minimal effect on the apple tree even though it physically couldn't have been any closer to the infected cedar tree. From this and completely unscientifically as it is I am interpreting that an apple tree either is or isn't overly susceptible and for those that show susceptibility to an unacceptable level of rust damage, there are already enough spores in the air here to seriously infect an apple tree. And for those apple trees that do not show susceptibility an increased amount of spores may not hurt the tree or at least in this case an increased insane amount of spores did not hurt the apple tree next to it. Thus planting more cedar trees may not increase the negative reaction of the apple trees on this property unless those apple trees are the susceptible types. Of course as we all know every property is very different.

Another question jumps out and that is are certain red cedar trees more prone to harboring rust galls? If so then those cedars with lots of rust galls maybe should be destroyed or at least the galls can be pruned out of the cedars and destroyed.

Note the pictured cedar tree is history as it did become winter deer food this year as that apple tree was released this winter.
EDIT--Just thought I would add that there are hundreds and hundreds of red cedar on this property and hundreds more reseed themselves regularly over the years. Most seedlings are eaten but some do make it through each year. Even with this increase in cedars I have not noticed any increase in cedar rust damaged apple trees over the years. Not a detailed study but no increase in damaged noticed.

 

[Fish]

I plant red cedar every year not far from my orchard. I couldnt stop CAR around here if i wanted too anyway. Plant resistant varieties. They are out there. Or, consider 2 sprays, maybe 1, a year worth the price of keeping your cedar screens. Thats how i approach it.

 

[TreeDaddy]

cedar trees ubiquitous in east texas

Fish,what would you spray on trees?

bill

 

[Fish]

Myclobutanil. It's a common fungicide you can find in garden centers. SPECTRACIDE makes a version, but last year i found a fungicide with myclobutanil as the main ingredient at the local garden center. Look for a fungicide and then myclobutanil on the label.

 

[Fish]

Captan does not control it.

 

[THE LLC]

If I see rust galls on cedars I cut them. If not I leave them alone. I have found that fire is a really good control agent on cedars.

 

[j-bird]

I have not seen signs of it yet on the cedars I have (knock on wood) but I will keep an eye out and maybe track down some chemical as well.

 

[Chainsaw]

I have not seen signs of it yet on the cedars I have (knock on wood) but I will keep an eye out and maybe track down some chemical as well.

Having a light rain so went out to check my cedars--no reaction from the galls to the rain yet-maybe too cold here still. You can see the dead galls from last year though(dark Brown) and the newer ones orange brown presumably developing for this year. Note-I have not caught them in this exact stage before so am only assuming the orange galls pictured are the ones that will blow up and get tenacles as it warms up and more rain comes. Picked a few branches--here is the picture of them as they are today. This tree will be loaded. I plan to watch it just to see its active timeline and mark it for next winters deer food or cut the galls off. Will post when and the conditions when they hit full bloom.

 

[buckdeer1]

Back when I worried about it I sprayed spectricide Imoniox or something like that

 

[Fish]

Back when I worried about it I sprayed spectricide Imoniox or something like that

Immunox will do it.

 

[Chainsaw]

The first active cedar rust gall here this year was April 25. It had gone dormant looking but it rained again last night so it is back out again. To relate the timing to other properties, the apple trees are four days or so before the first bloom. The leaves had barely started to show on April 25. Note in the picture below that the "legs "are shorter than pics I have taken in the past. Maybe they grow with each opening? Also the camera is picking up a glow in the dark type of color which my eyes are not seeing without the camera.

As everyone can see though they are easy to spot when active even from a distance.