BenAllgood
Well-Known Member
Late winter is a great time to set back thickets.
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Dr. Craig Harper - Manage Your Fields for Bigger Bucks and Better Hunting
- Thread starter BenAllgood
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yoderjac
Well-Known Member
I'm doing something similar that I call "wildlife openings". The are small fields that I started with a clover base and planted fruit trees in with wide spacing. I then let them go native. Every few years, I knock them back to keep them open before woody plants become too large for my equipment. I don't maintain the fruit trees, Once established, I don't use herbicide because of the fruit trees. I use a combination of a bushhog and disc. The idea is to provide small patched of open habitat with soft mast and native foods.
BenAllgood
Well-Known Member
Yes, and you'll also find many of the state and federal agencies use the term "wildlife openings" in programs they do or recommend.
So grasses are exclusively managed with mowing?
Equip in Ohio had me believe “wildlife openings” were just food plots and had never thought of the native possibilities. (A 15watt light bulb slowly illuminates ….,”hmmm”)
I have a couple of gas line ROWs- I wanted to cleth them and let the natives flourish but found some success with using gly (on an attempt to kill for a plot) this yr. One line has about 6-700yards of adjacent BH, Privet, nasties. The gas folks are supposed to mow, never do and I do not have a mower there (myself/yet)
Equip in Ohio had me believe “wildlife openings” were just food plots and had never thought of the native possibilities. (A 15watt light bulb slowly illuminates ….,”hmmm”)
I have a couple of gas line ROWs- I wanted to cleth them and let the natives flourish but found some success with using gly (on an attempt to kill for a plot) this yr. One line has about 6-700yards of adjacent BH, Privet, nasties. The gas folks are supposed to mow, never do and I do not have a mower there (myself/yet)
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
No, I find that mowing does not manage grasses at all. I do a burndown prior to starting a wildlife opening with gly and then plant perennial clover with a WR cover crop. Once the perennial clover is established and the trees are planted and caged, weeds of all kinds, including grasses infiltrate the clover. Eventually woody plants begin to infiltrate. I use a bushhog to knock everything back and let it desiccate for a bit before using a disc for light soil disturbance. Grasses are always a part of the weed mix. I tend to avoid herbicide application simply because of the risk to the fruit trees. So far, grasses have not dominated. If they become problematic, I may use the ATV spot spraying technique you see in the video. As long as it is a calm day and I'm spot spraying, the risk to the fruit trees is probably low.
I don't find cleth very effective on mature grasses. It seems to work well when grasses are young. I think many think of a wildlife opening as a field. I'm thinking of it as more of just early succession up to the point where woody plants become too large to manage with a bushhog.
Food was a limiting factor when we started our management program. We are on a pine farm and all age classes of pines on it had canopied drying up the native foods. We too have a pipeline ROW that became the main feeding plots for us. We started with a large food plot program to deal with the immediate food issue. Over time, management of the pines with thinning and prescribed burns along with some small clear-cuts kept in early succession with fire had increased our native foods significantly. Over time, I'm reducing our food plot program. I'm turning some of our small food plot into these "wildlife openings" that I described. I will be taking some of our ROW and changing it from feeding plots to more management of herbaceous native foods as shown in Dr. Harper's video.
MoreofMitch10
Member
For example, let’s say that a dozer man just came in and cleaned up a bunch of ground. Pines, autumn olives, cedars and some other trash. We have a bunch of bare dirt now, would you throw some rye and or red clover down now? Then next year see what comes up? I know I’m going to have to be ready to spray some unwanted species, VIA burn and spraying.
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yoderjac
Well-Known Member
Well, in general, it depends on the situation and your soils. For example, if you have heavy clay, heavy equipment like a dozer can compact it. Depending on the skill of the operator, you may have lots a lot of topsoil. If compaction is not an issue, based on your picture, I would throw and cultipack annuals. In my area, I'd use winter rye and crimson clover. The purpose is to get soil coverage and reduce any erosion on the slope. Those annuals will die on their own next year. You can reassess at that point.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
I would do the same, but use ladino or white clover instead of crimson
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
The only reason I think an annual clover is a better choice is that I think he wants to manage for native weeds. An annual clover will fix N faster since a perennial needs time to develop the root system. The annuals will die out letting the seed bank provide the weed seed. He can then selectively kill what he doesn't want as per the video. If his intent was to put in a food plot, I would completely agree with you. I'd keep it in clover until it is time for rotation. Generally perennial clover seed is more expensive than annual, but this can vary.
BenAllgood
Well-Known Member
I'd do something just on the erodible areas. And, that would be something that will die out in the winter so at spring greenup, any seeds that were disturbed or came in over the winter, wouldn't have much competition.
Longleaf
Active Member
This was an area many are lacking. There are several really good apps you can put on your phone now that allow you to take a photo and they will give you the common and scientific names as well as some basic info. It's amazing how quickly I pick start remembering different species after looking them up. I prefer the "Seek" app. But there are some other good ones as well like "PictureThis".
Glad to see Dr. Harper's name getting thrown around in here. He's a bit of a legend across the southeast when it comes to this stuff. We like to say, he knows a thing or two because he's seen a thing or two. What always impresses me most about Craig is he is constantly learning and challenging what he thinks he knows. He'll readily admit when he is wrong, or didn't understand a certain aspect of the equation. He's a good guy and readily available if you reach out to him.
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I need to get something like that on my phone.
George
Well-Known Member
I contacted the man through his e-mail at the U years back, it took him about 30 seconds to respond. Jim Bruaker was running his good name down in regards to autumn olive. He clarified what he said at a field study he was at in Michigan and told me that he spends about 80% of his effort/time in the field killing the crap.
G
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
I have some old pasture with lots of cool season grasses. I started by spraying gly in late November or Early December, I can't recall, but it was shortly after our first frost. Last spring I disked the area. It grew up with some kind of weeds that I did not identify. Most weeds were about waist high by the end of summer. I decided to mow a few strips of the dead weed material to see what was happening.
I was shocked. I got poor control of the cool season grasses. The are growing well. So, as soon as the rain stops and it dries up enough I plan to mow it all and spray it with gly now before summer weeds have greened up. I'm wondering if the disking caused the additional grass growth. This time I won't disk. I figure that may only start grasses again and since I did it last spring, I don't plan to do it again. We will just see what the seed bank holds.
This one is at my retirement property where I can watch it daily. It is kind of an experimental area for me. It is a big dip. We are building our retirement home right now. The bottom of the dip is pretty sharp and tough to mow, so we will be using any of the excavated soil that we don't need for grading to flatten that dip at the bottom. I'm not expecting much deer use because of all the activity. Instead, it is sort of a practice area. My wife would like to see it in wildflowers, but I won't plant anything until the house is done. This will give me a chance to see what weeds the native seed bank holds.
I was shocked. I got poor control of the cool season grasses. The are growing well. So, as soon as the rain stops and it dries up enough I plan to mow it all and spray it with gly now before summer weeds have greened up. I'm wondering if the disking caused the additional grass growth. This time I won't disk. I figure that may only start grasses again and since I did it last spring, I don't plan to do it again. We will just see what the seed bank holds.
This one is at my retirement property where I can watch it daily. It is kind of an experimental area for me. It is a big dip. We are building our retirement home right now. The bottom of the dip is pretty sharp and tough to mow, so we will be using any of the excavated soil that we don't need for grading to flatten that dip at the bottom. I'm not expecting much deer use because of all the activity. Instead, it is sort of a practice area. My wife would like to see it in wildflowers, but I won't plant anything until the house is done. This will give me a chance to see what weeds the native seed bank holds.
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
This has been an interesting experience. My weed identification abilities are lacking. I went to the chart in the video in the first post in this thread and wrote down all of the weeds in Dr. Harper's list. Next, I looked them up on the internet and downloaded pictures. After that, I drove around the weed management area taking pictures of my weeds. I used Google Lens to try to figure out what they are. I used it because I can use it on my computer as I'm not good with a cell phone (fat fingers). I was able to identify most of the weeds in my management area, but I'm still not sure about a lot of them.
One thing I learned was that most weeds are much easier to identify in later stages after they flower, so I'll be making another pass through the management area with a camera later in the year.
I will say this second time around, I got a much greater variety of weeds than the first time around.
Because I will be waiting most of the year to fill the sharp dip with the house build fill dirt, I probably will wait until next year to do the spot spraying of the undesirable weeds.
One thing I learned was that most weeds are much easier to identify in later stages after they flower, so I'll be making another pass through the management area with a camera later in the year.
I will say this second time around, I got a much greater variety of weeds than the first time around.
Because I will be waiting most of the year to fill the sharp dip with the house build fill dirt, I probably will wait until next year to do the spot spraying of the undesirable weeds.
Well.. decided to try a version of this and - on a one acre plot that was fallow for 4 years, I planted -
Trefoil 2#
Chicory 1#
Medium Red Clover 2#
Evening Primrose 2oz
partridge pea 1#
purple coneflower 2 oz
blackeyed susan 2oz
Grey headed cone flower 2oz
ragweed 1#
groundhog radish 2#
perdovik sunflower 2#
1 bag triple 19 and one bag triple 12
I disked about 3 inches deep over a couple weeks for prep.. no spraying..
Sourced the forbes from roundstone native seed.. I liked the drought resistance on most of them.. The plan was for a summer plot and then oak mast for fall as this plot is in the middle of an oak forest that had TSI in 2018.. Then a freak ice storm in northern Michigan took out about 30% of the canopy.. Hoping for a perineal, no maintenance scenario here..
Trefoil 2#
Chicory 1#
Medium Red Clover 2#
Evening Primrose 2oz
partridge pea 1#
purple coneflower 2 oz
blackeyed susan 2oz
Grey headed cone flower 2oz
ragweed 1#
groundhog radish 2#
perdovik sunflower 2#
1 bag triple 19 and one bag triple 12
I disked about 3 inches deep over a couple weeks for prep.. no spraying..
Sourced the forbes from roundstone native seed.. I liked the drought resistance on most of them.. The plan was for a summer plot and then oak mast for fall as this plot is in the middle of an oak forest that had TSI in 2018.. Then a freak ice storm in northern Michigan took out about 30% of the canopy.. Hoping for a perineal, no maintenance scenario here..
yoderjac
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting variation. I do have some fields that I established in clover. I planted no maintenance fruit trees in them and then let the field go up with weeds. When it gets enough woody stuff in it after a couple years, I mow it back and let it grow back up.
Your approach, planting a mix of native and crops is interesting. Most of the native stuff is free if it is in your seed bank and expensive if you want to buy seed and plant it.
The beauty of Dr Harper's approach is that it is very low cost for a high benefit. Just the cost of herbicide for spot spraying. That's the theory. Time will tell how well it works for me in practice.
I will keep the spot spraying in mind. The field being fallow for 4 years had very little in the way of vegetation. Mostly switch grass with scattered milkweed, thistle and a stray poplar or two. Not much in the way of seed bank material. It is high country, so, straight clover would not be feasible with periods of drought in the summer. This is a bit of a shotgun approach to see what thrives and what doesn't with some taller, drought resistant plants.
