Crop Oil vs Surfactant

T-Max

Well-Known Member
I see a lot of herbicides mixes here calling for crop oil presumably as a surfactant. I can't find that anywhere at home. All I see is 80/20 non-ionic surfactant. Are we talking about the same thing (I know they aren't the exact same thing)? Or at least similar enough products to be interchangeable? If not, what other effects are achieved by the use of crop oil as opposed to a generic surfactant?
 
Crop oil is not the same as non-ionic surfactant, but with some herbicides either can be used. Depending on what you are spraying, crop oil can damage some crops where non-ionic doesn't. It all depends on the details of what you are spraying, what you are trying to kill and what you are trying to avoid killing.
 
I pulled this off the internet: Nonionic surfactants are comprised of linear or nonyl-phenol alcohols and/or fatty acids. This class of surfactant reduces surface tension and improves spreading, sticking and herbicide uptake. Crop oil concentrates are composed of a blend of paraffinic-based petroleum oil and surfactants.
Basically what it's saying is that crop oil is harsher product that the nonionic surfactant at a cheaper price. A farmers secret, if you want to save money just use vegetable oil, it will do just as good of a job. Like yoder said, check your labels to make sure that a surfactant is called for.
 
I pulled this off the internet: Nonionic surfactants are comprised of linear or nonyl-phenol alcohols and/or fatty acids. This class of surfactant reduces surface tension and improves spreading, sticking and herbicide uptake. Crop oil concentrates are composed of a blend of paraffinic-based petroleum oil and surfactants.
Basically what it's saying is that crop oil is harsher product that the nonionic surfactant at a cheaper price. A farmers secret, if you want to save money just use vegetable oil, it will do just as good of a job. Like yoder said, check your labels to make sure that a surfactant is called for.
Thanks for the replies guys! It was more for the clover sprays like 2-4Db and Cleth. A lot of guys here call for mixing with crop oil and what I have available local is the non-ionic surfactant. Will it work? Or should I go online and get crop oil?
 
Thanks for the replies guys! It was more for the clover sprays like 2-4Db and Cleth. A lot of guys here call for mixing with crop oil and what I have available local is the non-ionic surfactant. Will it work? Or should I go online and get crop oil?
It will work and depending on the details of your clover, it may work better. If the clover is well established, either will work. If the clover is new or if you frost seeded this spring to fill in patches, Crop oil can burn young tender plants. They may or may not recover, but it can set them back. You don't have this issue with non-ionic surfactant.
 
Having said that, here is my thoughts on clover in a deer management program. Perennial clover is the anchor of my program. I find it is a low cost way to produce a lot off deer food. I no longer do much weed control in clover. I have found, over time, that nature abhors a monoculture. I find it best to bend nature slightly to favor deer, but the more you bend it, the higher the cost in money and time and the less marginal benefit you get, and in some cases, it works against deer.

I have become much more weed tolerant over the years. "Weeds" are just plants growing where you don't want them to grow. Many plants, considered by farmers to be "weeds" are great deer food and beneficial to both deer, wildlife in general, and the soil. Don't get me wrong, there are problematic weeds that do need to be dealt with if a particular weed is dominating, but a healthy mix if weeds in clover tended to work together to benefit deer.

So, my process starts with selecting a perennial clover. In my area, ladino goes dormant during the summer. Mixing it with chicory can give more coverage. Durana, only goes dormant for very short periods during dry summers here, and never goes dormant during summers with better rain. The particular clover chosen depends on your location. Durana is slow to establish, but once established is more persistent and drought resistant than ladino.

Next, I use best practices to start with a weed free field. I burn down in the fall and plant Durana with a Winter Rye cover crop. The first spring I mow the WR back to 6"-8" each time it gets much over a foot and begins to shade out the Durana. This keeps the WR alive and taking up space and impacting weeds until it dies naturally and gives the Durana time to establish.

After that first spring, I don't worry about weeds in my clover. During the summer, you can't even tell it is a clover field. A variety of weeds abound. Some benefit deer and others don't but they shade the clover underneath and don't bother deer at all. I've found that weedy fields tend to get more use. I think this is likely because of the bit of cover that taller weeds provide. As fall comes around, right before our archery season, I mow the summer weeds. The cool nights and fall rains favor the clover it comes bouncing back in the fall and it looks like a clover field again.

Over time, individual clover plants are always dying and releasing N while new plants are being born. The N makes the field more and more attractive to grasses over time. Eventually, the time comes (about 10 years with Durana) where the clover component of the field gets low enough to restart. At this point, I like to rotate into a crop that uses the N banked by the clover. I'll sometimes use buckwheat in the spring, or brassica and cereal in the fall.

I'll then start over and replant clover. When I first started, I used all kinds of methods to keep a monoculture of clover. The fields looked like magazine covers but had no more value for deer. I used cleth, 24db, and even gly with a wicking bar to keep them "clean". I mowed regularly as well.

I've learned that what looks "good" to man, rarely benefits deer or other wildlife.
 
Having said that, here is my thoughts on clover in a deer management program. Perennial clover is the anchor of my program. I find it is a low cost way to produce a lot off deer food. I no longer do much weed control in clover. I have found, over time, that nature abhors a monoculture. I find it best to bend nature slightly to favor deer, but the more you bend it, the higher the cost in money and time and the less marginal benefit you get, and in some cases, it works against deer.

I have become much more weed tolerant over the years. "Weeds" are just plants growing where you don't want them to grow. Many plants, considered by farmers to be "weeds" are great deer food and beneficial to both deer, wildlife in general, and the soil. Don't get me wrong, there are problematic weeds that do need to be dealt with if a particular weed is dominating, but a healthy mix if weeds in clover tended to work together to benefit deer.

So, my process starts with selecting a perennial clover. In my area, ladino goes dormant during the summer. Mixing it with chicory can give more coverage. Durana, only goes dormant for very short periods during dry summers here, and never goes dormant during summers with better rain. The particular clover chosen depends on your location. Durana is slow to establish, but once established is more persistent and drought resistant than ladino.

Next, I use best practices to start with a weed free field. I burn down in the fall and plant Durana with a Winter Rye cover crop. The first spring I mow the WR back to 6"-8" each time it gets much over a foot and begins to shade out the Durana. This keeps the WR alive and taking up space and impacting weeds until it dies naturally and gives the Durana time to establish.

After that first spring, I don't worry about weeds in my clover. During the summer, you can't even tell it is a clover field. A variety of weeds abound. Some benefit deer and others don't but they shade the clover underneath and don't bother deer at all. I've found that weedy fields tend to get more use. I think this is likely because of the bit of cover that taller weeds provide. As fall comes around, right before our archery season, I mow the summer weeds. The cool nights and fall rains favor the clover it comes bouncing back in the fall and it looks like a clover field again.

Over time, individual clover plants are always dying and releasing N while new plants are being born. The N makes the field more and more attractive to grasses over time. Eventually, the time comes (about 10 years with Durana) where the clover component of the field gets low enough to restart. At this point, I like to rotate into a crop that uses the N banked by the clover. I'll sometimes use buckwheat in the spring, or brassica and cereal in the fall.

I'll then start over and replant clover. When I first started, I used all kinds of methods to keep a monoculture of clover. The fields looked like magazine covers but had no more value for deer. I used cleth, 24db, and even gly with a wicking bar to keep them "clean". I mowed regularly as well.

I've learned that what looks "good" to man, rarely benefits deer or other wildlife.
I'm going to frame this and hang it in my shop. :)
 
Excellent points by @yoderjac.

One other clover tip is that Glyphosate is actually labeled for use in established clover. If you read the Roundup name brand label, it describes "clover renovation". We did this last year in the spring, and I was really surprised how well it knocked back our grass population in one clover plot. The "renovation" description is the perfect word for what happened. We had been using a variety of cleth/24DB/Imox with crop oil or surfactant with mixed results (spray timing/weather being a contributor to effectiveness).
 

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Excellent points by @yoderjac.

One other clover tip is that Glyphosate is actually labeled for use in established clover. If you read the Roundup name brand label, it describes "clover renovation". We did this last year in the spring, and I was really surprised how well it knocked back our grass population in one clover plot. The "renovation" description is the perfect word for what happened. We had been using a variety of cleth/24DB/Imox with crop oil or surfactant with mixed results (spray timing/weather being a contributor to effectiveness).
Same. I have used both cleth and 2-4Db and thought it must act as a fertilizer. 😂 I wondered if it was my surfactant. I am starting over on my clover plot this fall and trying to get ahead of it moving forward.
 
Excellent points by @yoderjac.

One other clover tip is that Glyphosate is actually labeled for use in established clover. If you read the Roundup name brand label, it describes "clover renovation". We did this last year in the spring, and I was really surprised how well it knocked back our grass population in one clover plot. The "renovation" description is the perfect word for what happened. We had been using a variety of cleth/24DB/Imox with crop oil or surfactant with mixed results (spray timing/weather being a contributor to effectiveness).

I've used gly on occasion if I don't have time to rotate. It is 1 qt/acre to top kill clover.

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In this example, 1/2 the field length-wise was suppressed with 1 qt/ac gly. The other half was bushhoged flat to the ground to suppress the clover. I then used a no-till drill to drill radish into the suppressed clover. You are correct, timing is key. You want good rain in the forecast as the gly or mowing flat stresses the clover. A second stress like drought can kill it. If you get the timing right, the radish germinates and gets above the clover before the clover bounces back from the root system.

I found both suppression techniques work well, but the gly method kills grasses effectively Either works if you rotate the next spring. The gly method will give you a couple more years, but eventually, you need to rotated.

I will say there are risks to this technique. Any time you uses gly at lighter rates, you are removing weeds that are more susceptible to gly and promoting weeds that are more resistant to gly. I would not recommend this method in farming country where gly resistant weed abound. In non-ag areas, it can work well if used prudently and not on a regular basis.

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