Cleft Grafting

[KSQ2]

Could someone please share some good information with me about cleft grafting? I spoke recently with David from Century Farms about rootstock grafting and this is the method he recommends. He does not have any videos on his website, he said he’d like to, but just doesn’t have time. He also said there are some horrible grafting videos on YouTube, so to be careful about that. I’m a complete novice on this, do I harvest the scion wood the same time I have harvested it for topworking? Do I immediately execute the graft and plant the tree in the pot, or let the rootstock get established first?
A couple more questions as well, he said the method I’m using with rootmakers will work fine with these trees, but he said to definitely not use a potting soil with fertilizer in it. Does the Promix HD I’m using for chestnuts and persimmons have fertilizer? I don’t think it does, but I wanted to be sure.
Also, he said potted trees are very susceptible to temperature damage or death in the summer. I’ve never experienced this with oaks or chestnuts, are fruit trees more vulnerable to this?
Thank you in advance for the help, there is so much valuable knowledge here; I don’t take you guys for granted!

 

[Native Hunter]

Cleft grafting is done nearly the same way you have been doing bark grafting. You collect the scions at the same time and in the same way you have been doing. Instead of peeling back the bark, you sharpen the scions on both sides and push down in a split (or cleft) you make in the rootstock. The bark needs to be touching on one side or both sides. The taping and wax are then applied in the same way you do bark grafting.

Cleft grafting is another way to topwork an existing tree or you can bench graft on a rootstock and plant it. I think any tree can die in a pot in the summer if it isn't taken care of. I find it hard to believe those videos are that bad. I would watch a few and go from there.

 

[KSQ2]

Cleft grafting is done nearly the same way you have been doing bark grafting. You collect the scions at the same time and in the same way you have been doing. Instead of peeling back the bark, you sharpen the scions on both sides and push down in a split (or cleft) you make in the rootstock. The bark needs to be touching on one side or both sides. The taping and wax are then applied in the same way you do bark grafting.

Cleft grafting is another way to topwork an existing tree or you can bench graft on a rootstock and plant it. I think any tree can die in a pot in the summer if it isn't taken care of. I find it hard to believe those videos are that bad. I would watch a few and go from there.

Thanks Native! With just every 3-6 day watering and late afternoon on shade, I’ve never lost a tree in a one gallon root maker. I’m hoping these won’t be a problem either.

 

[yoderjac]

Could someone please share some good information with me about cleft grafting? I spoke recently with David from Century Farms about rootstock grafting and this is the method he recommends. He does not have any videos on his website, he said he’d like to, but just doesn’t have time. He also said there are some horrible grafting videos on YouTube, so to be careful about that. I’m a complete novice on this, do I harvest the scion wood the same time I have harvested it for topworking? Do I immediately execute the graft and plant the tree in the pot, or let the rootstock get established first?
A couple more questions as well, he said the method I’m using with rootmakers will work fine with these trees, but he said to definitely not use a potting soil with fertilizer in it. Does the Promix HD I’m using for chestnuts and persimmons have fertilizer? I don’t think it does, but I wanted to be sure.
Also, he said potted trees are very susceptible to temperature damage or death in the summer. I’ve never experienced this with oaks or chestnuts, are fruit trees more vulnerable to this?
Thank you in advance for the help, there is so much valuable knowledge here; I don’t take you guys for granted!

Years ago, I got an el-cheapo grafting tool that actually works pretty well for cleft grafting. Here is a thread on the growing fruit forum: Grafting Tool. My posts on that old thread are under the name ForestandFarm.

 

[KSQ2]

Years ago, I got an el-cheapo grafting tool that actually works pretty well for cleft grafting. Here is a thread on the growing fruit forum: Grafting Tool. My posts on that old thread are under the name ForestandFarm.

Good grief, that looks complicated. Is there an easier way to graft rootstock??

 

[KSQ2]

Years ago, I got an el-cheapo grafting tool that actually works pretty well for cleft grafting. Here is a thread on the growing fruit forum: Grafting Tool. My posts on that old thread are under the name ForestandFarm.

Has anyone ever tried simply holding the rootstock in a vise, cushioned of course, and just used a very sharp knife held with both hands for the v cut?

 

[yoderjac]

Good grief, that looks complicated. Is there an easier way to graft rootstock??

Good grafting tools can cost several hundred dollars. The link I posted was a bunch of guys showing how to make a cheep Chinese knock-off work as well as a quality grafting tool. I did not have the resources at the time, so I went this route.

The tool is very simple and quick to use. The key, as with any cambium matching technique, is alignment. If you can find a scion that matches the diameter of the rootstock, you are 80% of the way there. After that, it is a simple snip on each end. Much easier than the Whip & Tongue graft. I had much better grafting success with the tool, but that may just be my personal ineptness with a grafting knife. I did take a grafting class, but Whip & tongue does take practice. With the grafting tool, my very first grafts were a success.

Once you have made the cuts, it is simply fitting one end into the other and wrapping it with a grafting rubber to put slight pressure on it. Once you've selected rootstock and scions that match in diameter, I could complete a graft in under a minute, and I'm a novice and any grafting except bark grafting.

 

[KSQ2]

Good grafting tools can cost several hundred dollars. The link I posted was a bunch of guys showing how to make a cheep Chinese knock-off work as well as a quality grafting tool. I did not have the resources at the time, so I went this route.

The tool is very simple and quick to use. The key, as with any cambium matching technique, is alignment. If you can find a scion that matches the diameter of the rootstock, you are 80% of the way there. After that, it is a simple snip on each end. Much easier than the Whip & Tongue graft. I had much better grafting success with the tool, but that may just be my personal ineptness with a grafting knife. I did take a grafting class, but Whip & tongue does take practice. With the grafting tool, my very first grafts were a success.

Once you have made the cuts, it is simply fitting one end into the other and wrapping it with a grafting rubber to put slight pressure on it. Once you've selected rootstock and scions that match in diameter, I could complete a graft in under a minute, and I'm a novice and any grafting except bark grafting.

I don’t thinking getting the right sized scions will be a problem, since I’m harvesting them myself and I have a LOT of limbs to choose from. I don’t even have a grafting knife though, what is the advantage of those over a sharp pocket knife, practically speaking? I’m not opposed to using a cheap grafting tool, if they are still available. I’ll need to speak with David to see the general diameter of the rootstock he’ll be sending me.

Also, are cleft grafting and whip and tongue the same technique with different names?

 

[yoderjac]

I don’t thinking getting the right sized scions will be a problem, since I’m harvesting them myself and I have a LOT of limbs to choose from. I don’t even have a grafting knife though, what is the advantage of those over a sharp pocket knife, practically speaking? I’m not opposed to using a cheap grafting tool, if they are still available. I’ll need to speak with David to see the general diameter of the rootstock he’ll be sending me.

Also, are cleft grafting and whip and tongue the same technique with different names?

My grafting knife has a single beveled edge so you can make a clean flat cut. Generally, more expensive grafting knives will maintain an sharp edge longer than inexpensive ones, but I think you want a knife with a flat edge if you plan to do W&T grafts.

 

[KSQ2]

My grafting knife has a single beveled edge so you can make a clean flat cut. Generally, more expensive grafting knives will maintain a sharp edge longer than inexpensive ones, but I think you want a knife with a flat edge if you plan to do W&T grafts.

I don’t think you saw my last question, are cleft grafts and whip and tongue the same thing?

 

[yoderjac]

I don’t think you saw my last question, are cleft grafts and whip and tongue the same thing?

No. They are different grafts. Unlike a bark graft, both are cambium alignment grafts.

 

[KSQ2]

No. They are different grafts. Unlike a bark graft, both are cambium alignment grafts.

Does the knife and/or the tool work for both grafts?
Sorry for all the questions, if I buy something I just want to make sure I get the right thing.