Bur Oak question

[Mitch]

At what height do they start producing acorns?
I was thinking about buying a 9-10’ tree and getting a jumpstart on my Bur Oak quest.


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[Mitch]

Seems to be they need to be 30-35 years old?
Not sure how tall that is


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[Fishman]

I am not sure if it is age or height. They are usually related though. I see numbers thrown around all the time about how old trees have to be before they produce acorns. I think those numbers are averages and ages can vary widely depending on the soil type, how much sunlight reaches the tree, and also genetics of the parent trees.

It seems from these two papers, that the time for getting trees to produce acorns can be reduced if you make sure you acquire acorns from fast producing parent trees, grow the seedlings so they produce a good root system with lots of first order lateral roots, and then plant the trees in good soil. These things are not always easy or practical for most of us. We all should have started 20 years ago.

Northern red oak from acorns to acorns in 8 years or less

Growing, selecting and establishing red oak and white oak seedlings for rapid growth and early acorn production

 

[Mitch]

Will an 11-12 ft bur produce acorns?


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[buckdeer1]

I had one about 6ft tall that I planted when a 3ft bareroot,it only had a couple acorns.The burs in my riparian will be planted 10 this spring and they have produced the last 2 years good crops.I too planted some bigger trees,a couple sawtooth,swamp and a bur maybe three -5 years ago and they are all producing.I have planted the only oak trees on my property and the deer have figured out they are good to eat but they are a food that maybe last a month so they don't fill a very big hole,just another option like fruit trees.

 

[Mitch]

9-10 ft tree would produce acorns you think?


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[catscratch]

I have 10 foot Burrs that produce, but I have them native so have no idea how old they are. Also have DCO, Chinkapin, and red oaks native. Some of them produce when they are knee high... but they might be pretty old and just not in a spot that allows good growth.

As Buckdeer said, oaks don't have a large window of drop times. They are nice for cover but for an attraction during season they don't last long.

 

[Mitch]

I’m not planting them to feed for a long duration. Obviously the acorns won’t last long once they fall. I’m planting burs because there are none anywhere near me. My hope is the bur brings in deer that might not normally come around. Once they are in my area, they like the hinge cutting and extra food I’m offering


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[Nebraskaz71]

Ive had 10fts produce, but generally 8 yrs minimum it seems here.

 

[Fishman]

According to the USDA Plant Guide sheet located here, bur oak produce acorns as young as 5 years old in an open setting. In a forest setting, it states it takes 35 years. It also states that burs grow 12-18 inches the first year with top growth averaging 8 - 12 inches per year after two to three years. If you buy a 9-10 foot tree, they should be between 9-13 years old.

 

[TreeFan]

Acorns in 8 years on a 10 foot tree in an open setting is about the best I can do. I am a believer in this trait being associated with the parent tree. I am working with several varieties to see if I can prove that out. Burgamble is my main test variety expecting acorns in 5 to 8 years. I can only get about 6 inches of growth the first year of growth. Second year, 2 foot of growth. This will be their 3rd year and they will be planted out in the field this year. Most varieties only have a few acorns the first year and increase yield with age. I have Bimunder/English that are 8 years old, 12 feet high and they were packed with acorns the first year, but they did not pollinate and they all fell off on numerous trees. The native oaks did not pollinate either. I have one white oak that produced one acorn at 8 years old and 9 feet high. Other white oaks I do not expect any acorns until they are 15 or 20 and quite large based on the parent tree behavior. Squirrels got all of my Burgambles this past fall.... GRRRR...

 

[j-bird]

Only thing I can say is that oaks are difficult to figure out. I have Burr oaks naturally and the neighbor planted many of them as a reforestation project (they are in the timber business). I have some burrs that are 60 feet tall that struggle to produce an acorn and others that are as big around as a beer can that produce. I had one that didn't produce anything and gave it some sunlight and in two years exploded. The main thing I would question if you don't have them naturally is WHY? Oaks, like many other plant species, like certain soil and weather and moisture conditions and the like. I am not trying to talk you out of planting burr's, but I would certainly encourage you to plant what will grow best on the chosen site. You may plant a 10 foot tree and the thing be 12 feet tall in another 10 years and still not produce.....what good would that do you? The fastest to produce an acorn I have seen personally is Chinkapin. The neighbors burrs are now 10 years old or better and they still are not producing yet, and they are well over 10 feet tall. I applaud your effort for diversity, but you will be years ahead in the long run by working with mother nature vs trying to force something.

 

[Mitch]

I like what you had to say. My land is littered with all kinds of oaks. Just not Bur Oaks. I want to change that. It’s a gamble for sure. But my oaks produce like crazy in certain years.


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[j-bird]

I like what you had to say. My land is littered with all kinds of oaks. Just not Bur Oaks. I want to change that. It’s a gamble for sure. But my oaks produce like crazy in certain years.


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So....other than the diversity.....what do you anticipate the burr oaks will do for you? I'm not trying to be difficult.....but your post makes me think that you may feel that the burr oaks may produce in an otherwise lean acorn year. My experience with them says that is NOT the case. My experience with them is that they too have good years and poor years with "wow" years every so often, but not on a regular basis. Even members of the white oak family.....it doesn't make them consistent producers.

IF you are looking for a constant, prolific and young producer.....look into sawtooth if you don't have them already. I know they are NOT native, but everything I have read says they flat out are made to feed critters acorns. I am growing some on my place currently for this very reason.

Like I said, I like how you are trying to add diversity, but by getting 10 foot trees tells me you want fast results and I can appreciate that too, but I fear you may get, at best, fast results and see these burrs follow a very similar pattern of production like your current oaks do.....and I am not sure that will achieve what you are really looking for. And 10 foot trees tend to be a significant investment from what I have seen.

 

[Mitch]

No reason other than to add diversity. An acorn that's 3 times the size of anything they have ever eaten. I'm hoping to attract neighboring deer and hold them on my land. I had 4 deer over 180" going between my land and neighbors land. Mostly the neighbors land. I didn't have the food to keep them there. I have the cover, just not the food. I'm changing that with a food plot and some hinge cutting. I figured this bur oak, which according to the nursery is producing acorns, will help push the needle in my favor.

 

[Nebraskaz71]

Depending on where u live bur acorns might not be as big as u think, mine arnt a lot bigger than the chinkapin acorns i've received, sometimes u get one almost golfball size but most are smaller than a nickel for sure. I know one bur/hybrid tree I grew from an acorn as a kid, in its first year producing could fill a five gallon bucket, the last ten yrs maybe 100 or so acorns total each yr. Yet some i planted a couple yrs ago as 8ft trees produce a ton, its hit or miss.

 

[j-bird]

Mitch, just a question on my part.....do you have Sawtooth Oak on your place? The reason I ask is that it seems you are looking to add to that hard mast component. Sawtooth are not worth much for anything else except - producing a ton of acorns every year. As I understand it they produce at a young age, produce annually and under the right conditions can produce a bunch of acorns. I have some at my place just for that reason, but they are not of bearing age yet (grew from acorns just last summer). Now they are NOT native - so they do have that strike against them, but if you don't have them it may be worth looking into for you.

Something else I am not sure others have seen or not, but burr oaks can produce a large acorn, but they seem to not produce as many as well. So just because they are bigger doesn't ensure you are going to get a significant jump in "tonnage" so to speak. Also they could fall at the same time as all the other acorns on your place as well......they may contribute to your effort at that time....but may not really prolong that window when they are on your place. They are just so variable...and that's oaks in general, not just the burrs. This is why many of us have also included soft mast and plots to target certain time frames.

I could be 100% wrong as well. You could plant these burr oak trees, they produce right away and the deer beat a path directly to those trees and you have a deer magnet for decades to come. For your sake I hope they do......I just think there is a lot of things outside our control to ensure that happens. Good luck.

 

[Needmorebrush82]

I think a lot of depends on if you are planting bare root trees, root pruned trees, fertilized, watered, soil, etc. In poorer soil areas my root pruned trees have flat out left the bare root trees in the dust with all things equal. I believe it's mainly due to a root pruned tree having the advantage of many more feeder roots to scavenge nutrients in less than prime situations. With tubes, water, and fertilizer I have many root pruned Burr Oaks push 6ft tall in two growing seasons. Yes you will have a few freaks that will do better, but 6ft is an attainable number in the masses. I will use a 50/50 mixture of chicken poop and triple 13 every spring when they are first getting going. A fist full spread equally into 3 dibble bar holes is sufficient. If you push the boundaries you will have trees growing so fast that they will not be able to support themselves tubed or not, been there, done that! The first year any tree is planted I water it, this keeps me limited to 500 or so trees because I simply don't have time to water anymore in one evening that I get off per week, life!

 

[buckdeer1]

I have probably 4-5 varieties of oaks that I have planted and there was no oaks in anywhere but yards within 5 miles.Burrs,sawtooth,swamp all grew good and are producing.But be prepared as that tree can be your best and then one day it's dead.A couple years ago I had some sawtooth that I was going to put a ladder stand in and shoot my first deer from a tree that I had planted.It and 2 other started dying and after having a forester from state sample it died from canker.You won't know until you try

 

[Mitch]

Mitch, just a question on my part.....do you have Sawtooth Oak on your place? The reason I ask is that it seems you are looking to add to that hard mast component. Sawtooth are not worth much for anything else except - producing a ton of acorns every year. As I understand it they produce at a young age, produce annually and under the right conditions can produce a bunch of acorns. I have some at my place just for that reason, but they are not of bearing age yet (grew from acorns just last summer). Now they are NOT native - so they do have that strike against them, but if you don't have them it may be worth looking into for you.

Something else I am not sure others have seen or not, but burr oaks can produce a large acorn, but they seem to not produce as many as well. So just because they are bigger doesn't ensure you are going to get a significant jump in "tonnage" so to speak. Also they could fall at the same time as all the other acorns on your place as well......they may contribute to your effort at that time....but may not really prolong that window when they are on your place. They are just so variable...and that's oaks in general, not just the burrs. This is why many of us have also included soft mast and plots to target certain time frames.

I could be 100% wrong as well. You could plant these burr oak trees, they produce right away and the deer beat a path directly to those trees and you have a deer magnet for decades to come. For your sake I hope they do......I just think there is a lot of things outside our control to ensure that happens. Good luck.

I don't have any sawtooth's on my land. May have to add those in, huh?
The bur's that I collect my acorns from produce every year and lots of them. Only problem is i'm growing them from seed, so patience is needed lol.