Terminating cowpeas/sorguhm for LC Rye mix rotation

G3 Ranch

Well-Known Member
Being a newbie to this process I need some advice from those with experience... I have two plots one 3.5 & one 1.5 acres of cowpeas/sorghum. The sorghum is an egyption wheat substitute, I believe a sweet variety, it's from 4' to 6' now, cowpeas are 24"-36". The plots are on poor, shallow soil, but don't look too bad considering. I'm not sure the best way to rotate into the fall LC Rye mix. I spred 1 ton/ac lime in April before planting, should just need fert. I seeded the sorghum a bit too heavy but the cowpeas are doing fair.. I can post pics tomorrow if helpful. I'm thinking of mowing/disking in the fert & seed, not sure if throw & mow would be a reasonable option with the height of the sorghum. Any advice is much appreciated.
 
We did throw and mow last fall in the same situation as you are this year and were pleased with the results. Just spun on the seed then bush hogged. This was in a couple of spots where cant get the drill. Where we can drill, we hogged as high as possible then drilled then hogged low. That worked really well.
 
We did throw and mow last fall in the same situation as you are this year and were pleased with the results. Just spun on the seed then bush hogged. This was in a couple of spots where cant get the drill. Where we can drill, we hogged as high as possible then drilled then hogged low. That worked really well.

I would like to go that route, with the sorghum at 5' or so I am concerned about broadcasting it effectively, any addl. advice?

Thanks for the response.
 
We did throw and mow last fall in the same situation as you are this year and were pleased with the results. Just spun on the seed then bush hogged. This was in a couple of spots where cant get the drill. Where we can drill, we hogged as high as possible then drilled then hogged low. That worked really well.

Also, did you broadcast the small seed at the same time?
 
I just did the same this weekend, had cow peas, sunflower and oats. Mowed halfway down sprayed gly and waited about a week, spread PPT & Radishes then mowed the rest of the way. My plan is to over seed with winter wheat after a few weeks of growth.
 
In my educational plot i mowed short and overseeded a brassica blend on some. The rest of my soil builder mix i worked under. People will be surprised that there is little difference in plant height but there was an expected reduction in germination %. I clipped, broadcasted and rolled the clipped plot. I also have extremely loose soil as i have been using both dry and liquid humics this season on the educational plot. This helps. The use of growth promoters also helps a lot in no til or minimum til food plotting.
 
I would like to go that route, with the sorghum at 5' or so I am concerned about broadcasting it effectively, any addl. advice?

Thanks for the response.

You only need about 50% light penetration to get an overseed germinated......it may start out slow but will grow rapidly later. Summer forbs and acorns will keep your deer well fed this fall, giving plot ample time to establish. Late summer and fall can remain hot and dry in the Red River basin.....making fall plantings a bit more challenging than in more northern locations.....having some cover in the field sure helps hold that moisture for seedlings to establish!

The sorghum will regrow after mowing. Since it is thick, you probably should spray after mowing to a 6-12" stubble height. Then broadcast LC mix at~125 lb/ac to compensate for lower germination rate right before rain......or 100 lb/ac if using a drill about 1-2 wk post spraying.

The EW in our mix is 8-12' tall.....we will open the gates and let the cows have at it for a week....then decide on mow/spray....definite on drilling. Cows will give the needed light penetration.....stalks remain standing as cover.....frost will get the sorghum tillers.....just need to see what the grassy weed issue is before deciding to spray.
 
Thanks to all for the ideas.,

Doug,
Will cowpeas regrow after mowing, if so, any benefit spraying cleth to terminate just the sorghum?

Thanks Doug
 
They may regrow but you have winter peas in LC mix which should suffice. You can also add 8-12 lb/ac of soybeans or cow peas to a fall mix....we do this every year....winter peas just don't do it for me (low grazing tolerance).

Some have reported the need for a withdrawl period after spraying cleth then planting another grass crop.....3 weeks or so. It is good to rotate herbicides anyway.....just keep in mind cleth is slower than gly to work!

WE have some peas and beans in a reclaim planting which have survived despite being hammered.....but that is a small plant which was repeatedly browsed....tall plant which is cut too short probably won't regrow...leave some leaf if you want regrowth.
 
I have to do something similar in the next 6 weeks or so. I have 4 acres of peas, sunn hemp, and forage soybeans. It's a jungle in there and we still have lots of growing season left.

I have a no till drill (GP 706NT) to work with so don't need immaculate planting conditions, but I don't want to waste time/money either. I will plant a southern version of the LC mix (rye, oats, crimson clover, arrowleaf clover, maybe some radish). Should I mow and spray as well?
 
They may regrow but you have winter peas in LC mix which should suffice. You can also add 8-12 lb/ac of soybeans or cow peas to a fall mix....we do this every year....winter peas just don't do it for me (low grazing tolerance).

Some have reported the need for a withdrawl period after spraying cleth then planting another grass crop.....3 weeks or so. It is good to rotate herbicides anyway.....just keep in mind cleth is slower than gly to work!

WE have some peas and beans in a reclaim planting which have survived despite being hammered.....but that is a small plant which was repeatedly browsed....tall plant which is cut too short probably won't regrow...leave some leaf if you want regrowth.

Thanks again Doug, I'll get it mowed & sprayed and hopefully we'll get some rain soon.
 
In the throw and mow areas we used at spreader and drove through the mess and let fall where it wanted too. Lol. Doug has you pointed in the right direction.
 
Thanks again Doug, I'll get it mowed & sprayed and hopefully we'll get some rain soon.
The good rains have been spotty across this region....a friend 80 mi east of us had < 3.5" of rain since 15 May...when his text stated 'moving the herd slow'....I knew he was having problems and kinda shocked. His message last week were two of the pictures below. I know many of you are going through some dry times....and it's frustrating...and we've been there but are not very sympathetic....because sympathy will only make you more frustrated...and I don't do you a favor through frustration. So the following is a story of how a couple good friends make it through these dry times...read and learn how we stay upbeat and sane!

Our ranch is on opposite end of spectrum as my friend. Moved cows down on some bottom land when it got real hot/dry where so there would be moisture for regrowth and good forage quality. Now we are moving cows on 21-28 d rotation on a fourth of the ranch acres to try and get more high quality forage into the cow since she reduces intake in the heat. So far it has worked very well and the herd is calm/content. The herd is prepping those acres for fall planting next month....the better their prep job, then the less time and money I spend mowing with the hog to get proper sunlight penetration down low! Notice the bull is following 014...she calved first of June....maintaining good condition and breeding back ~70 days later...should calve early to mid-May next year which is a great time to calve for low winter feed bills. Cows in foreground are fall calvers.....nutzy fat as they should be this time of year because they have low requirements right now.....kinda look like barren doe deer don't they?


With three fourths of the ranch having been either regenerated by grazing and or fire and available for wildlife use, then you can see how our deer will carry good body condition as well...they reduce intake in the heat too and regenerating forbs are over abundant for that reason. So look at your preferred forb abundance this time of year...you either have enough or don't and some is regenerating or not....change things in the future if you don't see that. And if a deer isn't carrying good body condition this time of year then we have some remedies for that...reduce numbers hard and improve habitat in that area....and target the lone poor doers during season in other areas! There is high coincidence between the cow and deer herd here....you can look at one or the other and tell how both are doing and what kind of habitat you have! It ain't about pastures it's about cow habitat and that is deer habitat too...all animals need good habitat...and a brood cow is an animal....not a confined livestock!

At least temps have moderated recently and that will go a long way for the animal.....what most people don't understand about this area of the country is the combination of shallow soils, high temps with wind accelerates evaporation and plant transpiration loss of moisture....above 95 and plants will go through a bunch of water just cooling themselves.....then enter dormancy when water is exhausted. IT happens every summer here in varying degrees....just a fact of life...learn to change with the flow! An inch of rain or less does little good....above 2" and one should get some regrowth provided you manage soils for good infiltration. As example, three 2+" rains have fell since 1 July to current and ponds haven't filled.....that is because we manage soils for good infiltration rates. It also shows how short lived that water can be when it is hot and transpiration rate high. Don't get over exited about 2" in August because 100F can make that short lived....remember the plant want's to cool itself and that takes extra water!

The text to my friend was this on 8 Aug......his reply was and ecstatic 1.2" at his place! This picture tells a bigger story than what is in the gauge. See that greenbrier right there by the gauge.....it has new growth because there is moisture deep in the soil....when you don't see that new growth, then you need to change what you are doing cuz the worst has yet to come. Green brier is a deep rooted woody surviving most of what God and man have thrown at it over centuries! My friend sent me pics of briers which were totally denuded (sorry, lost the pics when my old phone went down). He asked me what I do for brier suppression.....told him I mow briers in late winter once each 3-5 yrs....keeps the high quality woody stuff present (small stems) in pasture as forage rather than a diversity suppressing brush thicket (thick stems). Mow too frequently and briers will go away (the best brier control in the Noble Foundation study was the lanes between plots which were frequently mowed). Green brier is tough....a critical indicator plant...pay close attention to it!


Cool season perennials broke dormancy 20 Aug but the first wave of cool season annuals have yet to appear...that is a clue from mother nature that this summer ain't over yet! So be very patient and observant at this point (cuz the fat lady hasn't sung).....mowing and spraying can be done in a day....if you have a drill, planting can be done the next day or the next week...so just pay close attention to what is going on over the next month...these little details matter for successful planting!

Fall army worms are triggered by late summer rains which break dry spells. Anticipate this and let summer forage remain tall as insurance against damage....don't be in a hurry to plant winter annuals for this reason or a late replant may be needed (a common mistake when one plants on the calendar rather than no Nature's timing)! My friend had army worms and here is his reply with the pic, "I don't spray for them. Always figured did more harm to the beneficial bugs than any good I would get from grass. And yup. The mature stuff is immune. (to worm damage)."


And one of the beneficials he refers to are these dung beetles. His commentary, "These little guys are just trying to make more little guys and don't need to be sprayed. They are doing what you and I hope to do after the sun goes down."


So that is how we cope with the conditions Nature throws at us. Focus on the big picture (holistic management...land, social, ecomonics...family, friends, the animal...as an interacting whole).....focus on the little things which matter (animal body condition, indicator plants, plant dominance issues, insects)....and share a few inside jokes to break the tension. Your attitude and my sympathy won't make it rain, but managing for soil health and increased soil water storage sure makes the time between rain events easier to pass! Remember, it will get worse before it get's better!

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Thanks for the info Doug,

The owner where I buy my seed & fert warned me about planting too early due to army worms as well. I'm sure folks in your position who make a living off the land are more frustrated by the lack of rain than some of us recreational land owners.
 
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Lack of regrowth during dry spells is frustrating......but our group has went through some harsh droughts so we have good plans of action figured into the grazing plan. As example, some of the native stuff is only grazed once a year. Bottom line there is always ample forage ahead of the herd and good residual left behind. Late winter can be more challenging because of weathering effects on stockpiled forage palatability and disinterest at some point from the cow. So I shoot for 90-120 d recovery in winter to provide grazable green forage among the brown.....that keeps them content for 3-4 d of the week.
 
This is what my bean, pea, sunn hemp plots look like:





That sunn hemp is about 6' tall. I expect it's all going to grow like crazy this week because we've already gotten 4" of rain from Hermine and lots more is on the way.

What do I do with plots like this when its time to no till drill into them?
 
That really looks good and forage is well ahead of deer use!

Mow twice over a 3-5 week window before planting. First mowing much higher then the second.....second mowing just before planting to suppress regrowth. A true roller crimper would get the peas but probably not sunnhemp. Leave some unmowed strips across the field for residual food and screening cover.....these can be dealt with for a late winter planting of small grains etc. This aspect of cover cropping is mainly trial and error to figure out your best plan. You may want to mow pat right now and watch the response. Your goal should be to let mowed biomass dry down and start to degrade letting some filtered sunlight penetrate thatch at planting.....use about 25% higher seeding rate than you normally would to compensate for reduced germination if thatch is excessively thick.
 
That really looks good and forage is well ahead of deer use!

Mow twice over a 3-5 week window before planting. First mowing much higher then the second.....second mowing just before planting to suppress regrowth. A true roller crimper would get the peas but probably not sunnhemp. Leave some unmowed strips across the field for residual food and screening cover.....these can be dealt with for a late winter planting of small grains etc. This aspect of cover cropping is mainly trial and error to figure out your best plan. You may want to mow pat right now and watch the response. Your goal should be to let mowed biomass dry down and start to degrade letting some filtered sunlight penetrate thatch at planting.....use about 25% higher seeding rate than you normally would to compensate for reduced germination if thatch is excessively thick.

Thanks, Doug. What do you mean by "mow pat"? Mow it to the ground? I'm looking to plant LC variant in early/mid-October, so I need to start the process of preparing this for termination.
 
Thanks, Doug. What do you mean by "mow pat"? Mow it to the ground? I'm looking to plant LC variant in early/mid-October, so I need to start the process of preparing this for termination.
That was a typo which my editor didn't catch...here is the correct sentence: "You may want to mow right now and watch the response. Your goal should be to let mowed biomass dry down and start to degrade letting some filtered sunlight penetrate thatch at planting.....use about 25% higher seeding rate than you normally would to compensate for reduced germination if thatch is excessively thick."
 
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