Opposite of food plot

NCPABill

New Member
I have a unique issue (for this group) in that I have significant deer damage to commercial Christmas trees, mostly fir trees. We are now routinely mowing open areas to keep cover down, and some other things to reduce bedding areas. In a few fields that we are plowing, etc. we seeded to buckwheat (which does not attract deer very well here). I am looking for a groundcover / grass that deer do NOT like.

Does anyone have any suggestions for northern Pennsylvania?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Bill
 
If buckwheat is not attracting deer, it is because they have found a better food source when the buckwheat is young. I'd guess that buckwheat germinates and grows so fast, you are probably not noticing the deer use.

How many acres of Christmas Trees are we talking about?

If deer are giving you significant crop damage on fir trees, it is because they lack better food sources at the time they are eating it. In northern PA, I presume it is winter time.

I'd consider doing exactly the opposite of what you are doing. I would plant browse species that deer prefer over pines. Deer will eat cedar and other fur trees if they don't have better choices. I'd consider giving them better choices.
 
If buckwheat is not attracting deer, it is because they have found a better food source when the buckwheat is young. I'd guess that buckwheat germinates and grows so fast, you are probably not noticing the deer use.

How many acres of Christmas Trees are we talking about?

If deer are giving you significant crop damage on fir trees, it is because they lack better food sources at the time they are eating it. In northern PA, I presume it is winter time.

I'd consider doing exactly the opposite of what you are doing. I would plant browse species that deer prefer over pines. Deer will eat cedar and other fur trees if they don't have better choices. I'd consider giving them better choices.
Thanks for the reply. Somewhere in the 30,000 of trees, in general about 60 acres. It is a family Christmas trees farm. You are correct - winter is the time where they eat them. They never used to, but we had one winter where the snow was crusted, so they ate what they could get at. We are improving areas away from the trees for deer. Mostly clover plots, but they are there. I have considered broadcasting shell corn over those areas throughtout the winter to keep them there looking for food.

I am not thinking that there is a tastes-terrible grass that will repel them, but if I can reduce their desire to be in a field when I'm seeding it back anyway, I think it can't hurt.

Thanks again for your advice.

Bill
 
Thanks for the reply. Somewhere in the 30,000 of trees, in general about 60 acres. It is a family Christmas trees farm. You are correct - winter is the time where they eat them. They never used to, but we had one winter where the snow was crusted, so they ate what they could get at. We are improving areas away from the trees for deer. Mostly clover plots, but they are there. I have considered broadcasting shell corn over those areas throughtout the winter to keep them there looking for food.

I am not thinking that there is a tastes-terrible grass that will repel them, but if I can reduce their desire to be in a field when I'm seeding it back anyway, I think it can't hurt.

Thanks again for your advice.

Bill
60 acres is a lot to fence, but it may be worth looking into a Gallagher-Style e-fence. It is low inner and outer stranded electric fence that plays off a deer's limitations. It is fairly low cost compared to other fencing options. This may not work in a deep snow situation as the lower strand may be shorted by the snow.

I figured it was deep snow that cause them to hit the firs to survive. That is why I suggested planting preferred browse away from the trees. Deer don't generally eat most grass, fescue, orchard grass, timothy and such. When you see deer feeding in a pasture they are generally selecting the forbs and other weeds that are growing in the grasses. Any soil disturbance will attract deer.

Another thought, depending on what other trees you have growing in the area might be what the MSU deer lab calls "mineral stumps". You simply cut down mature trees that are a preferred browse species and let them regenerate from the stump. Because there is such a large established root system and so little top growth, the trees push high levels of minerals and nutrients into those water sprouts from the stump. Deer are highly attracted to them and they now have a food source that was previously out of reach in reach.

You might do a modified version of this where you cut the trees a foot or two above the ground leaving a tall stump. If you got heavy crusted snow, this browse would be in easy reach of deer.

The real question is whether you could produce enough food to carry what ever size herd you have through the heavy snow periods.

I don't think anything you do will condition deer enough. Deer are used to adjusting their patterns seasonally. It is not like they will stop going into a place to feed on firs in the winter just because there was no food there in the spring/summer/fall. I would not waste my efforts on planting grasses. Except for bunch type grasses (Native Warm Season Grasses), they don't benefit any wildlife in general. I would either spray with Arsenal to keep competition down for your newly planted fir trees, or just let the native seed bank grow what it wants.

Probably one of the best things you can do is to encourage as much hunting on your land as possible to reduce deer numbers. You could have an agreement with hunters that they must shoot a couple does before they can shoot a buck. I don't know about PA since I haven't lived there since I was young, but in my state, the game department will issue kill permits for commercial operations with crop damage that are good for does. This would complement any efforts to increase preferred winter foods.
 
Fence++. In winter, food can get scarce, so they'll go after fir/pine/etc.

I hunt NCPA too. There are a few tree farms in the area. I talked to one nearby last deer season, and he's looking for hunters due to damage. He got into a redtag/hunter access program. I'd talk to the PGC to see what options you have, but be prepared for locals to get upset if you get access to red tags.
 
Fence++. In winter, food can get scarce, so they'll go after fir/pine/etc.

I hunt NCPA too. There are a few tree farms in the area. I talked to one nearby last deer season, and he's looking for hunters due to damage. He got into a redtag/hunter access program. I'd talk to the PGC to see what options you have, but be prepared for locals to get upset if you get access to red tags.
"be prepared for locals to get upset"... When I lived in PA Gary Alt was the bear biologist. When I moved to VA, I was pleasantly surprised at how progressive the game department down here was with regard to deer management compared to PA. I remember back when Gary Alt moved to deer management and tried to drag the state into the 21st century. He was rewarded with death threats!
 
"be prepared for locals to get upset"... When I lived in PA Gary Alt was the bear biologist. When I moved to VA, I was pleasantly surprised at how progressive the game department down here was with regard to deer management compared to PA. I remember back when Gary Alt moved to deer management and tried to drag the state into the 21st century. He was rewarded with death threats!
"Traditions" die hard in PA. We finally got online doe tag sales this year, instead of the DUMB pink envelopes. Of course 100,000 guys logged on the first morning, and the site queue up badly. Everyone was pissed and wanted their pink envelopes back, but they did sell something like 160,000 licenses in the first 24 hours. There are roughly 800,000 hunting licenses sold per year in PA.
 
Back when I lived there, many years ago, you had to mail in an application with a check in early fall to enter a lottery to get a doe tag in a specific county. Buck season was first, so if you did shoot a buck during buck season, you doe tag was void. You could only shoot one deer per year.

When I moved to VA, you got 3 either-sex tags along with just as many doe-only tags on your license. Then, if 6 deer was not enough, on private land you could buy doe tags (called bonus tags) that were good on private land. In the heavily populated counties where it was primarily bow hunting, they had extended seasons.

Eventually when I bought the farm, I was able to enter it into a DMAP program. In exchange for taking measurements and biological samples for the game department, they provide free doe-only tags that are good during any deer season regardless if it is a buck or doe hunting day.

Back when I lived in PA, you did not even think about hunting near a food source. During that 2 week compressed season, you had to hunt escape routes when the orange army entered the woods.
 
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