Late again

[Mennoniteman]

First, if he sprays and kills the grasses, the clover will rebound. Second, the grasses eat up the excess N produced by the clover which is one reason they sneak in there to start. Have you ever seen clover die out in a yard without some chemical spray? Always stays prevalent along with a variety of other growth. Deer had the dog barking midnight last night as they ate in my front yard of 25 years. No they wont eat the grasses, but that clover will persist quite well. I see your thot, and get it, but it just not necessary for a plotter to worry of. Nature abhors a monoculture and will fight against it. Ive done as John is about to do thinking grasses were overwhelming the plot, but that was years ago and I would never do so again. No argument with me either way, but also just not necessary if one chooses.
But with that said, brassica will certainly love a planting in an rotated clover plot.

Clover in a lawn is usually white dutch clover which does a better job at competing with grass than most taller growing varieties. I have several beautiful half acre monoculture Regal Graze Ladino clover/ chicory plots (and some new ones that I'm still establishing) that stay nice for several years without spray because the clover is so thick that nothing else can get established. But it took lime, fertilizing with zero nitrogen, mowing, and spraying twice a year for several years to win the grass battle. Now that they are established it's tons of deer food from April into December and it doesn't look like they will ever die out, a half acre grows at such an amazing rate that no amount of deer grazing seems to overwhelm them. No way would I destroy my hard work on a perpetual gem like this in the name of crop rotation.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I usually plant mine around Labor day with rye. If you are going to till and broadcast get your soil ready broadcast the rye and set your disc at about 1-2" depth and disc it in then cultipack. Broadcast your your clover/chickory and cultipack again. This has worked good for me for establishing a clover plot, next spring you can either mow the rye high above the clover, spray it the cleth or just let it go Good luck.

If you select to mow just be careful because does and fawns like to bed in there.

That's sure a thick stand of clover for the first spring, and those are excellent instructions on how to start a new ladino clover patch.

 

[JohnL48]

My beautiful clover plot when I had time to maintain it

And what it looks like now

 

[shawn cox]

That 3-5 year lifespan is really hogwash. Theres guys on here that have plots well over 10 years old. I also once subscribed to that theory and was why I decided it was time to undo my clover plot. After doing so, grasses still sneak in, and I delt with more unwanted weeds than was ever happening in my original plot. It certainly is controllable, but looking back and using what I've learned, then I shouldve just kept plot active as it was. Again, I'll go back to a persons yard. Their clover never disappears if not treated. So why do we think we have to do same in a deer food plot. I'm about saving time and money and sweat and while I have annual plots that I rotate, my perennial plots are never redone anymore.
If you want to rotate and move the plot, I think that is fine. But don't do it just because you think it is toast. If you do what I suggested, next year you will still have a decent perenial plot with little effort. Yes it will have some grasses, yes even some weeds which often are deer friendly. An if you want hit it once or twice a year with cleth, and keep weeds mowed few times a year. Overseed WR into clover each fall, and trust me, it will last a very long time. Just an option, no judgement on my part. Good luck.

I love my perennial plots of clover. However you cant just leave it unattended and think it will be okay. Grasses will come in and wipe it out. The grass will need to be treated at some point and its best dealt with Clethodim. Yes clover will persist in your yard of grass but your yard is maintained. I doubt you are letting your grass grow a couple of feet high. This has just been my observation on my clover plots. Different areas of the country I have no knowledge of growing plots so take my observation with a grain of salt. Each plotters situation is different and we must figure out what works best for us through our own experiences, but hopefully through each others experiences on here we can make the process a little easier on ourselves. I am very appreciative of everyone's input on here even when some have different opinions. This forum is full of knowledge and I am very thankful to be able to share it all with all of you.

 

[shawn cox]

My beautiful clover plot when I had time to maintain it

And what it looks like now

I would let the grass grow a little and spray it. Then in the fall broadcast your clover and some winter rye maybe drag it in and then mow the thatch down over it. I bet you will be surprised at how much old clover you will have come back out after you kill the grass.

 

[dogghr]

My beautiful clover plot when I had time to maintain it

And what it looks like now

I love my perennial plots of clover. However you cant just leave it unattended and think it will be okay. Grasses will come in and wipe it out. The grass will need to be treated at some point and its best dealt with Clethodim. Yes clover will persist in your yard of grass but your yard is maintained. I doubt you are letting your grass grow a couple of feet high. This has just been my observation on my clover plots. Different areas of the country I have no knowledge of growing plots so take my observation with a grain of salt. Each plotters situation is different and we must figure out what works best for us through our own experiences, but hopefully through each others experiences on here we can make the process a little easier on ourselves. I am very appreciative of everyone's input on here even when some have different opinions. This forum is full of knowledge and I am very thankful to be able to share it all with all of you.

Yea John, I could remember your plot from years past and is exactly why I think it is still salvagable if you desire. And I have pics of my old clover plots that looked like that, but not anymore. And although not as picture perfect, the deer are in there just as much, if not more as I manage them today.
Shawn, if you read my suggestion, I did suggest using Cleth to maintain with mowing and perhaps a no N fert. But lets look at the yard thinking. I agree it is more maintained. And I did plant it 25 years ago myself with fescue, rye, and WC. Now theres my farm. 15 acres of fescue once managed with cattle. Those fields are never mowed for the last 9 years I've owned. Fescue and weeds are 3-6 feet tall. Yet what is underneath? Clovers. We have this misconception that everything must be nearly a monoculture. Why does nature never ever plant that way? That's why we have to fight to maintain our plantings. Yet the deer don't care. They will graze my clover whether it be in my grass free plot, or weeded plot, or what lies within the fallow fescue fields. My point is we don't need be annal about the grasses and weeds within a plot. We might have to keep them within reason for our own sake, but if we aren't managing for profit, then I seriously doubt grasses in clover will have any impact on the number or quality of deer present.
Now with all that said, I do spray at times with Cleth or Gly. And I do fert yearly with 0-20-20. And mow a few times a year. But I'm sure if I showed my ugly plots on hear there would be a gasp by many of how ugly they were. It doesn't hurt I suppose to make them like a golf course, but my point, is don't feel guilty if you choose not to.

 

[Mennoniteman]

My beautiful clover plot when I had time to maintain it

And what it looks like now

If I'd have a clover plot that looks like that I'd hit it with about 20oz per acre of roundup as soon as the grasses start new growth after the mowing, about three weeks after the next rain you'd see the clover just popping out. It takes the maxiimum recommended amount of 44 oz per acre to kill clover, but 20 oz will kill the grass, and much faster than clethodim. Put 64oz AMS in first, then 16oz crop oil in 25 gallon water per acre, then the Roundup

 

[shawn cox]

Yea John, I could remember your plot from years past and is exactly why I think it is still salvagable if you desire. And I have pics of my old clover plots that looked like that, but not anymore. And although not as picture perfect, the deer are in there just as much, if not more as I manage them today.
Shawn, if you read my suggestion, I did suggest using Cleth to maintain with mowing and perhaps a no N fert. But lets look at the yard thinking. I agree it is more maintained. And I did plant it 25 years ago myself with fescue, rye, and WC. Now theres my farm. 15 acres of fescue once managed with cattle. Those fields are never mowed for the last 9 years I've owned. Fescue and weeds are 3-6 feet tall. Yet what is underneath? Clovers. We have this misconception that everything must be nearly a monoculture. Why does nature never ever plant that way? That's why we have to fight to maintain our plantings. Yet the deer don't care. They will graze my clover whether it be in my grass free plot, or weeded plot, or what lies within the fallow fescue fields. My point is we don't need be annal about the grasses and weeds within a plot. We might have to keep them within reason for our own sake, but if we aren't managing for profit, then I seriously doubt grasses in clover will have any impact on the number or quality of deer present.
Now with all that said, I do spray at times with Cleth or Gly. And I do fert yearly with 0-20-20. And mow a few times a year. But I'm sure if I showed my ugly plots on hear there would be a gasp by many of how ugly they were. It doesn't hurt I suppose to make them like a golf course, but my point, is don't feel guilty if you choose not to.

I get exactly what you are stating. I am not articulate with my words either. my intention is not to discredit what you are saying. I agree with you whole heartily. My plots are not monocultures at all either. I have a lot of weeds in mine. I leave some ragweed in my plots because the deer forage it. I do mow my clover once a year and try my best to control some of the weeds and I know I don't have the time or money to make the picture perfect weed free clover plot but I am happy with mine and I don't worry about weeds in my plots as much as when I first started. I just try to manage the grasses, the deer don't care.

 

[Brokenbear]

My trouble with clover plots is I know what to do ...when to do it ...and sometimes a bit behind schedule and then I lose the plot to nesting turkeys ...just cannot mess with my turkey nesting ...so I would love clover but have given in to annuals for deer ...nest the turkeys ...then plant for deer again ...I'm an idiot I guess

Bear