Trying to do better

Discussion in 'Food Plots for Wildlife' started by jlane35, May 29, 2020.

  1. jlane35

    jlane35 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    268
    Location:
    NEPA
    I would like my plots to be more effective all year long. Along with eliminating discing and drying my soil out. What could I mix in with fall plantings like oats, or turnips, winter pews that will produce the following spring? At that point I would like to throw and mow for fall planting again and repeat the cycle.
     
  2. catscratch

    catscratch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    1,717
    Location:
    Kansas It's better to wear out than to rust out.
    Wheat and a mix of clovers works well for me. Oh ya, chicory too.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     
    Native Hunter likes this.
  3. Jon

    Jon Active Member

    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    86
    Location:
    Tully, NY
    Hardiness Zone:
    5
    You want to
    Include a biennial plant like winter rye or wheat in enough quantity to your fall blend to ensure some regrowth through may or June then focus on a seed blend that will maintain some
    Nutrient recycling until your fall planting, you need to focus on maturity of you spring/summer planting.... sorry I’m not specific but a lot of it revolves around your soil type and goals etc . I’ve used survivor winter peas and hairy vetch as an overwintering plant that works well but you need to be focus on the volume and again nutrient needs,etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. jlane35

    jlane35 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    268
    Location:
    NEPA
    So if winter wheat, red and white clover are mixed in with a fall plot it will grow again in the spring and be high enough to throw and mow into for the fall?

    I’m somewhat green when it comes to food plotting, besides buying a specific type of seed and planting that for one season in mind.
     
  5. catscratch

    catscratch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    1,717
    Location:
    Kansas It's better to wear out than to rust out.
    I wish I could post pics. My rye is over truck window high, the wheat is half that tall, and the clovers are over knee high right now. Tons of tonnage! So yes, depending on summer heat and clover setback it will be plenty for fall TnM.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     
    dogghr likes this.
  6. jlane35

    jlane35 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    268
    Location:
    NEPA
    Do you reduce your fall planting seed rate? Do you have an example of what you would broadcast over an acre? Or does it take until spring for the WW and clovers to start growing enough where they won’t compete with the fall planting?
     
  7. dogghr

    dogghr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,178
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    Location:
    Monroe County, WV
    Do as Cat said. I throw n AWP, radish , PTT , oats, RC and WW or WR Broadcast early Sept. Sometimes I wait and throw the grain out late Oct as I always overseed my perennial clover and alfalfa plots each fall w grain at that time.
    Grains die off mid summer and you can fall plant again.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    jlane35 and Mitch123 like this.
  8. catscratch

    catscratch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    1,717
    Location:
    Kansas It's better to wear out than to rust out.
    Fall seeding rates for my TnM would be about 100lbs total cereal grains (50 awnless winter wheat and 50 winter rye) and 15 to 20 pounds of clovers per acre. Wheat and rye will show up within weeks and stay green all winter (depending on what part of the country you're in), clovers will show up in the spring and do well until heat and dry get to them.


    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     
  9. jlane35

    jlane35 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    268
    Location:
    NEPA
    I’m probably asking a bunch of silly basic questions but I want to make sure I’m getting the process correct. I also want to make sure I’m explaining myself clearly.

    Is the mix you just described a stand alone plot that is done year after year? Or do you have let’s say PTT and rape mixed in and the WW, rye, and clover don’t really compete with the fall attractant during the later growing season. Then come spring the WW, rye and clover take off. Then when the fall planting season comes around again you can plant the same cereal grains and clover along with let’s say winter peas.
     
    catscratch likes this.
  10. catscratch

    catscratch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    1,717
    Location:
    Kansas It's better to wear out than to rust out.
    No problem, ask all the questions you want none of them are silly.

    You can mix as many brassica's, winter peas, or anything you want when you seed in the fall. A problem you might come up with is some of the brassica's need a summer plant date rather than a fall plant date to get bulbs. I personally don't do turnips anymore for a variety of reasons, but I do plant radishes in my fall mix for their leafs/tops. A second problem might be wanting to terminate the brassicas the following summer before they go to seed. Doing this without killing your clover could be a challenge. Just to be clear... I plant tons of things in my mix. It's not just wheat, rye, and clover. I'll plant 10 to 15 species sometimes just to have diversity. Some of the things I plant get out competed and never present themselves. Some of them don't appear to be there until summer stress when others struggle and they get a chance to emerge. I'm going to tell you this... it's not a exact science, you almost can't mess up. Research some plants, ask questions, plant things and have fun, pay attention to the results and go back to the one's you like. The only way to screw this up is to introduce or allow an invasive onto your place. I only buy certified seed, no bin-run stuff for me (except for black sunflower seeds, they've been clean for me). But as far as planting the wrong thing for deer or messing up a mix, I don't think you can. You might check out Greencovercrops smartmix calculator. It's pretty fun to play with and get some ideas/guidelines. SmartMix Calculator

    I do this mix every year. I don't have to, the clovers will either be perennials that come back for several years or annuals that can re-seed themselves.
     
    HuronMtn, jlane35 and KSQ2 like this.
  11. jlane35

    jlane35 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    268
    Location:
    NEPA
    The first year you started doing this did you let a field get high enough weeds to do throw and mow or did you disc broadcast and cultipack it all in?

    Do you use a crimper when eliminating the WW and rye off before a fall planting or do you spray with Gly?
     
  12. catscratch

    catscratch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    1,717
    Location:
    Kansas It's better to wear out than to rust out.
    Most of my plots have NEVER been disced. I haven't broken ground in a lot years. I'm perfectly fine with using natives for thatch. I don't have a crimper and gave up on my roller as side by side tests showed no difference in germination or growth. I use gly and a mower. The mower isn't necessary though, I've had plenty of success with standing thatch... it will fall over in time.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     
    BenAllgood likes this.
  13. Elkaddict

    Elkaddict Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,374
    Likes Received:
    913
    Location:
    Catskills, NY
    I think part of what’s viable is also weather/soil quality dependent. I need thick full brassicas (think knee to thigh high) to get through or winters. They won’t provide the needed winter tonnage without significant fertilizer given our lousy soil. I don’t think I could grow them relying just fertilizing on top of the soil. Could following Bakers crimp/no till methods improve my soil over time? I’m sure it would. Would it ever be enough in my rock plots? I doubt it.
     
    catscratch likes this.
  14. jlane35

    jlane35 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    268
    Location:
    NEPA
    I have pretty rocky soil too, so that makes me a little nervous I guess but it’s worth a shot.
     
  15. jlane35

    jlane35 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    268
    Location:
    NEPA
    So tell me if I have this correct. I have an acre that I already soil sampled for brassica and turnips this fall. I was letting it grow to do throw and mow already. I’m hoping it gets enough growth to cover the seed. I already have the brassica and turnip seed purchased so if I buy some winter rye, winter wheat and some clover seed from the local ag store and I mix that all together I should have a nice winter draw along with plenty of forage coming back up next Spring to repeat the process again next year?
     
  16. catscratch

    catscratch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    1,717
    Location:
    Kansas It's better to wear out than to rust out.
    Yes, but your brassicas will probably need to be planted months before your grains/clovers to produce tubers. If so you won't be doing TnM for your grains and clovers as your brassicas will probably be knee high and canopied. At that point the best option would be to broadcast seed into your standing brassicas before rain and hope to get germination.

    Or, you could try planting them all at the same time either early (for tubers) or late (for winter forage). Or, you might split the field in half and try a couple of different things.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     
    jlane35 likes this.
  17. jlane35

    jlane35 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    268
    Location:
    NEPA
    Ok, how about this. I have Whitetail Institute oats. I know about the whole buck on bag deal but that’s where my father likes to buy seed from. The planting date for them is much later then brassica. Do I mix winter rye and wheat in with that to start the throw and mow process?
     
  18. catscratch

    catscratch Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,778
    Likes Received:
    1,717
    Location:
    Kansas It's better to wear out than to rust out.
    I would plant the oats, wheat, and rye at the same time (per the plant date on the oats bag). I would plant them with the TnM method and use them the following spring to plant a summer plot with TnM. Not sure I answered your question though...

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     
  19. Native Hunter

    Native Hunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,615
    Likes Received:
    4,244
    Location:
    Kentucky (Zone 6B)
    I totally agree with what catscratch told you. This is what my fall planted plots look like right now. This is a mix of red clover, crimson clover, white clover, chicory, wheat and oats. This will be a buffet the entire year. I threw in a few other goodies for fall, but the above is what's left now:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    jlane35 and catscratch like this.
  20. Native Hunter

    Native Hunter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,615
    Likes Received:
    4,244
    Location:
    Kentucky (Zone 6B)
    Forgot this picture. They inhale those big chicory leaves like candy, and when the wheat heads ripen, they eat those too.

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. Islandguy85,
  2. Mennoniteman,
  3. lakngolf
Total: 103 (members: 4, guests: 84, robots: 15)
(moderators are listed in blue)