So what kind of equipment do I need?

[shaman]

I am at least a few years away from chucking the day job and retiring to deer camp permanently. I've got 200 acres in SW Bracken County. Details here:
http://deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/der-bauernhof.3819/
http://deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/der-bauernhof.3819/
So this is still kinds of blue sky. However, I'm starting to think about what it is I want to do when I get there. Food plots and other habitat managment are at the top of the list. In another recent thread on here, I was talking about my Eastern Red Cedar problem, so cedar eradication will also be near the top. Beyond that is a bit of a cypher to me. I might want to try sawing up some of the wood I cut down. I may want to tell the hay dude to take a hike and start mowing the 40 acres of pasture myself.

My questions are as follows:

1) What sort of tractor do I want?
2) What implements? I figure that I'll want a front loader, and some sort of mower.
3) Should I even be thinking abou tractor? A lot of folks do their plots with ATV's. I have a neighbor who even mows with his.

 

[j-bird]

#1 - big enough! Diesel, 4wd, rear PTO, FEL, ag tires, cat 1 hitch. I would not consider anything smaller than 30 hp personally. Mine is 30hp but my ground is flat and dry loose soil. Especially when it comes to ground working jobs being able to put the power to the ground is key.....this is the primary advantage of a tractor over an ATV (see your #3).

#2 - it all depends on the jobs you want to do and how you want to do it. You mention mowers, well they come in different types. A finish type mower is great for making things look nice, but they don't stand much of a chance if clearing bush or you find a log or large rock. I use a rotary style mower for my plots and mowing beyond my yard. Also check the mowing height desired and how easy it is to adjust that. Plotting equipment is a topic all it's own. If you work the soil and how you want to plant and the like is a huge topic. A few other things to consider - a large capacity hopper style spreader - great for spreading lime, fertilizer and medium and large seed. A sprayer - great for spraying plots, weeds, fruit trees and even as a water truck for watering trees or for controlling controlled burns.

But my all time favorite habitat tools.....are a box of matches.....and a chainsaw!

 

[SwampCat]

I have a 28 hp JD and a 65 hp JD. I am on the little JD more times in a week, but on the bigger JD more hours in the year. If you are even dreaming about mowing 40 acres - I would get a bigger tractor. Bigger implements cost more though. If you are going to plant food plots, you will want, at a minimum, a bush hog, disk, fert/seed spreader, and 55 gal sprayer. I have a Woodmizer LT28 - and if you want to cut any amount of lumber, you will also want a set of pallet forks to go along with your front end loader. I have 200 acres - I would not dream of taking care of it with an ATV. Get a side by side and a 55 to 75 hp 4wd tractor with FEL, matching implements, and you will be good to go.

 

[j-bird]

Sometimes you need a 6" cresent wrench, sometimes you need a 36" cresent wrench! Great if you can buy both, but if you can only buy one, buy the one you will use more often and more suited to your "typical" tasks. Also consider what you may be able to rent or pay someone to do for you on a once or twice a year basis vs having that money tied up in equipment that just sits there 50 weeks out of the year. If it wasn't for me having the tools I would pay my cash rent farmer to plant my corn plot. He gets done in 30 minutes what takes me all day! So there can be other options.

 

[FL Plotter]

If I read your math problem correctly, you have 40 cleared acres of 200 that at least needs mowing a couple of times of year. That right there screams a lotta hp and wide equipment else you won't get done in time to rest before you have to mow/work the land again. I grew up on a 200 acre farm in VA with 70hp tractors, 5 bottom plows, and 12' disc harrows. I think the bushhog was 10'. Everything seemed to take forever.

I'm a Kubota fan, but choose your own poison. I would go with a Kubota 5100 (or larger) with a cab and detachable FEL that has a quick attach bucket so you can swap to forks or other front implements. HST makes life easier, but you lose a little hp with it. Largest tiller it will run. Largest disc it will run. Largest flail mower. Larger bushhog. Posthole digger. Grain drill. Etc. You get the idea. Ideally, you get a Tier 3 engine to avoid the emissions junk on the newer Tier IV engines.

I've got a 38hp Kubota and just bought 20 acres. I'm really wanting a L4600HST for the same type of tasks as you but on a smaller scale. Trying to figure out how to buy it now and store it for 7 years so I can avoid that Tier IV junk.

 

[Mennoniteman]

With the amount of acres that you have you definitely want a tractor. A 4x4 diesel tractor with an air-conditioned cab and front end loader and bush hog as big as you can afford will be an investment that you will never regret and you will find yourself spending a lot of time in it. You won't go wrong with Kubota or JD, I also hear good things about Mahindra but never ran one. If you don't spend enough $ to get a decent rig upfront guaranteed within a few years you will be saying"ich bin ein dumkopf" A thought on that big pastureland, let it grow up for a few years to make some great deer habitat, then mow 1/4 of it per year with the bush hog, that way you keep it in a manageable state of great habitat.

 

[Elkaddict]

For that size property, a tractor is a necessity. I went with a 55hp MF and have been happy. Wish I’d spent the additional coin on a cab now. I only plot 17 acres and I can’t imagine going any smaller, in fact I felt compelled to pick up a used 65hp landini when the opportunity presented because living 3 hrs from the farm and working long hours, having a second tractor to complete chores was a real time saver. Things tend to break or need repairs when you’re up against a time crunch (this would be less the case in retirement). 4wd and a FEL are indispensable. Implement wise, you’ll want a heavy disc, cultipacker, heavy duty brush mover, a cone spreader and a sprayer.

 

[Chainsaw]

About retirement, likely if you are busy now the same may apply to you when you retire. Brush hogging is often like mowing a large lawn--not a heck of a lot is accomplished. I agree with Mennoniteman's thinking on brush hogging the forty and would even consider instead of doing 1/4 a year I'd consider doing 1/8 of it a year plus spot cut whenever MFR or other nasties start springing up. My logging winch is one of my favorite tractor accessories; no I don't do commercial logging but end up cutting and moving a lot of trees. Many get hauled home to cut into saw boards or firewood, some get hauled home or out of public sight to set up winter feed stations for the deer, some get cut and relocated to add screening, barriers and to add cover to bedding areas. The logging winch a must have for me here.

A second favorite accessory is a woods backhoe attachment. We need to move a lot of stone and as handy as the front loader bucket is it is not acceptable at digging, loading rocks yes but not digging them. The backhoe also comes in handy for maintaining tractor roads and installing culverts to get thru the wet spots. A small excavator it is not and though it is slow it does get the job done. As Elk said, I miss not having a cab, especially in mid summer and beyond when the yellow jackets are fierce. Most summer tractor work is done early in the morning or late in the day to avoid the full sun. With a cab tractor work could be done comfortably any time of day.

A drag harrow, ground leveler, herbicide sprayer, post hole digger and fertilizer spreader are also must haves.

 

[shaman]

Thanks all for the responses.

It sounds like mowing may not be a good idea for me. What I mean is that from what I'm gathering, I probably want to keep the hay dude and his once-yearly mowing. That's one thing I like about the country: you can get someone to mow your lawn just for the clippings.

So let's figure a single-cutting of hay being outsourced.

What about the rest?

BTW: the closest reputable tractor concern is about 10 miles away. Their main line of tractors is Massey Ferguson. My acquaintences tell me they're trustworthy. I bought my Cub Cadet mower from them-- good experience so far.

Other thoughts: I see a lot of y'all suggesting mow and throw. When I've had guys do plots for me, they've either disked or used a rotovator. In some instances, guys have plowed first.
What sort of implements do I want for the plots?

 

[Chainsaw]

Thanks all for the responses.

It sounds like mowing may not be a good idea for me. What I mean is that from what I'm gathering, I probably want to keep the hay dude and his once-yearly mowing. That's one thing I like about the country: you can get someone to mow your lawn just for the clippings.

So let's figure a single-cutting of hay being outsourced.

What about the rest?

BTW: the closest reputable tractor concern is about 10 miles away. Their main line of tractors is Massey Ferguson. My acquaintences tell me they're trustworthy. I bought my Cub Cadet mower from them-- good experience so far.

Other thoughts: I see a lot of y'all suggesting mow and throw. When I've had guys do plots for me, they've either disked or used a rotovator. In some instances, guys have plowed first.

What sort of implements do I want?

Maybe things grow faster where you are Shaman but annual mowing here in a hay field just kills many of the broadleaf weeds and really doesn't help the deer much. And of course mowing during fawn season takes out a whole lot of deer no matter how experienced a tractor operator is.

 

[shaman]

My current hay dude seems to like to do his cutting in August or September. I had one previously that preferred June. The good news is, at least based on the crows and vultures, the mortality has been next to zero. Whenever I got out to check on what is interesting the birds, it's almost always a rabbit.

 

[Jeff H]

A couple thoughts I have: 1. A tractor is a lifetime investment. Take your time. Spend your money well. My Father in law always said " buy your tools once". Don't go cheap. If you buy right, the one you choose may likely be used by your kids 30 years from now.
2. Rent until you figure out what you want. Rent a Kubota, then a John Deere, a 30 hp, then a 50. Renting vs buying is dirt cheap. I rent usually twice a year and spend less than $300/year doing so vs buying a $20- 25,000 tractor. Yes, it's more of a hassle and the convenience of owning is indisputable, but we're talking thousands of dollars of difference here. Plus you've got time on your side. Use that time well.
3. It's probably a lot cheaper to let the hay dude mow your 40. At least for now. Ask yourself what the ROI is on a $20,000 tractor cutting 40 acres of hay. Again mowing it yourself is a pleasurable experience that cannot be measured financially. But 40 acres of hay won't pay for your fuel, maintenance and depreciation in the long haul.
4. You can get a lot of work done with a FEL, brush cutter and a box blade with rippers.

 

[Elkaddict]

Dave, I’d love to hear more about your logging winch. My present method of connecting a chain to the draw bar isn’t great.

About retirement, likely if you are busy now the same may apply to you when you retire. Brush hogging is often like mowing a large lawn--not a heck of a lot is accomplished. I agree with Mennoniteman's thinking on brush hogging the forty and would even consider instead of doing 1/4 a year I'd consider doing 1/8 of it a year plus spot cut whenever MFR or other nasties start springing up. My logging winch is one of my favorite tractor accessories; no I don't do commercial logging but end up cutting and moving a lot of trees. Many get hauled home to cut into saw boards or firewood, some get hauled home or out of public sight to set up winter feed stations for the deer, some get cut and relocated to add screening, barriers and to add cover to bedding areas. The logging winch a must have for me here.

A second favorite accessory is a woods backhoe attachment. We need to move a lot of stone and as handy as the front loader bucket is it is not acceptable at digging, loading rocks yes but not digging them. The backhoe also comes in handy for maintaining tractor roads and installing culverts to get thru the wet spots. A small excavator it is not and though it is slow it does get the job done. As Elk said, I miss not having a cab, especially in mid summer and beyond when the yellow jackets are fierce. Most summer tractor work is done early in the morning or late in the day to avoid the full sun. With a cab tractor work could be done comfortably any time of day.

A drag harrow, ground leveler, herbicide sprayer, post hole digger and fertilizer spreader are also must haves.

 

[shaman]

A
3. It's probably a lot cheaper to let the hay dude mow your 40. At least for now. Ask yourself what the ROI is on a $20,000 tractor cutting 40 acres of hay. Again mowing it yourself is a pleasurable experience that cannot be measured financially. But 40 acres of hay won't pay for your fuel, maintenance and depreciation in the long haul.
.

If I did tell the hay dude to go away, I'd probably just mow and not try to hay. Either way, though, you're absolutely right. As it is, right now, I'm trading 40 acres of grass clippings for a once-a-year lawn mowing. When I retire, I'll probably plant a plot here and there and tell the hay dude to stay off it.

 

[Jeff H]

If I did tell the hay dude to go away, I'd probably just mow and not try to hay. Either way, though, you're absolutely right. As it is, right now, I'm trading 40 acres of grass clippings for a once-a-year lawn mowing. When I retire, I'll probably plant a plot here and there and tell the hay dude to stay off it.

If he pays for the hay I'd keep him as long as I could, especially if he's not any trouble to you. If he's not paying you then you've left money on the table. Time to renegotiate. Just my .02

 

[rusty1034]

Dave, I’d love to hear more about your logging winch. My present method of connecting a chain to the draw bar isn’t great.

Elk, I’m using a JD 4520, about 50 hp, for my plotting work. In the winter I use the tractor to haul logs out to be used as firewood. For many years I used logging chains. Obviously you know the issues and limitations associated with that method. About 2013 I saw a 3 pt skidding winch in action. I immediately fell in love with the attachment, and soon bought a large Wallenstein model. I used that one on a friends large tractor, and got out 4x as much wood compared to using chains.

We liked the winch so much that I bought a second winch to use on the JD 4520. It’s simply amazing how much the winch increases productivity. We also picked up a ‘snatch block’ pulley which allows you to virtually pull logs around corners.

There are some winch models that come with wireless remote controls. They were a little more than I wanted to spend, so I didn’t get one. Every time I am walking from the log to the tractor to engage the winch, I find myself thinking “ Man I wish I had the wireless remote”.

Based on prices I’ve seen, it appears as if a logging winch is an attachment that holds its value much better than others.

Good luck !

Rusty

 

[Elkaddict]

Thanks Rusty, I’ve been looking.

 

[catscratch]

I would keep the hay dude. Have you thought about tax implications? If you aren't harvesting hay will your land become taxed as "recreational"? Can you buy equipment with a tax write-off if you stop showing a profit on your land?

If it were me (and I know it isn't), I would: talk with the hay dude and tell him you want to plant plots, plant them in strips and ask him about spacing (what spacing works well with his equipment), ask if there are any crops you could plant as plots that he would be interested in harvesting (alfalfa strips in native hay could bring you good money and be great for deer), ask him if he has other equipment and if he would be willing to plant said strips. He might jump at the chance to get into a different product and it might work well for you to talk with him a little...

 

[Chainsaw]

Dave, I’d love to hear more about your logging winch. My present method of connecting a chain to the draw bar isn’t great.

Tom, as Rusty said the increase in production is huge. It gets so much work done and safer than just hooking it up to the tractor. Mine is a Farmi brand 3-point hitch model JL351 which is powered by the PTO shaft. http://www.farmiwinch.com/
I bought it from Hudson forestry Equipment during the 2004 Booneville Woodsmens days. Booneville has several dealers there each year and one gets to see various manufacturers and models of winches and all equipment and tools related to forestry activities from chainsaws to skidders and more. Prices there are usually better than anywhere as specials are the norm and it is a great day out. Most years I have been in Booneville for only one day of the event but when buying high dollar items I have been to all three days to help workout the best deals on purchases and the chainsaw demos and shows are excellent. Some of the best chainsaw operators/competitors in the world are there.
hudson forestry https://www.hud-son.com/products/product-detail/45m-uniforest-log-skidding-winch
Booneville woodsmen days schedule and ad http://www.starwebhosting.net/woodsmen/schedule.html


Back to the skidder tool. It is on the tractor most of time. It has 165 ft. of cable so that is as close as I have to get to the tree to pull a log out. Getting closer though means easier, faster and safer winching. As Rusty mentioned using the snatch block is a great tool for moving the log around obstructions on the way in to the tractor. I have a pretty good road system and usually get pretty close to my trees so my winching is usually only 30 to 50 feet. I don't mind not having a remote controller for that but if I was winching a higher percentage of long distances a remote would be very handy.

There are two functions of the winch that are important. One is to winch the log to the tractor and the other is to have a place to hook the chained log(choker chain) to the tractor once the log/tree has been winched to the tractor that will lift the front of the log off the ground to make pulling safer and easier. The winch has multiple chain holding slots so that multiple logs/trees can be pulled at once. I seldom pull just one log or tree at a time and do pull as many as four or five at once on occasion.

Dangers of using the winch are fairly easy to control. Things to avoid would be pulling too heavy of a load for the tractor could cause the front end of tractor to lift up as does towing too quickly and having the pulled log get caught on a tree or something. Also as with pulling anything in the woods we always watch for what we might bump into with the trees/logs in tow or when winching as it can cause branches or even trees to come crashing down. The system has a rope to engage/disengage the winch which is pulled from off the tractor while standing about ten feet or more off to the side.. That way if the cable breaks and comes whipping back you have a good chance of not being in its path. Also it quickly becomes evident to not winch sideways to the tractor; the tractor can be tipped easily. With all of that said I don't recall any close calls and have not had a cable break either. Our Farmi winch has never had a breakdown and it is pretty much maintenance free. When purchased, it was the best choice for my 40 horsepower tractor. I have not kept up on them since so don't know which might be the best value today. That and pricing is why I would highly recommend a trip to a Woodsmens days to get a look at different manufacturers and models.

 

[Elkaddict]

Thanks Dave, I’ve requested some info. I’ll look for the woodsman’s show.