Jump into managing this field? Or farm it for a few years?

[Hob 'n Grind]

Hello everyone. I have recently joined this forum and this is my first post. In December of 2017 I was able to acquire my first piece of property located in SC Pennsylvania and have begun learning as much as I can about habitat management. Previously, I purely hunted public land in PA as well as in Kansas (lived in KS for 4 years after college). After buying the property my eyes were opened to the huge potential there is in managing and manipulating the land to improve it for wildlife. I have done a lot of reading on this forum, and there seems to be some great habitat focused people here. Because of this I was hoping you could potentially help me out with my unique situation:

This property was previously owned by the adjacent township, and the ~15 acre field was used as a spray field for the local water treatment facility to release treated water back into the environment. The field had a network of pipes running underground, that lead to spray heads where the water would be sprayed on the field. Before I bought the property, all of the pipes / spray heads were removed and back filled. Unfortunately, the back fill job was not done very well and the field is now extremely lumpy with some high humps and pretty deep ditches. Currently, the field is mostly fescue and some reed's canary grass, as well as a few weeds.

While I would love to jump right into improving the field with warm season grasses and tree plantings, I think it might be a huge headache to manage this field down the road with how lumpy the field is, especially when considering the warm season grass management. Another factor is the effort it will take to kill all of the cool season grasses currently growing in the field. Seeing as I do not yet own a tractor it seems like a tall task to manage the field effectively at this point.

One thought I had was to let a farmer plant crops on the ground for a few years. It seems like this could benefit me because the field would need to be smoothed out, and the grass would be killed through spraying. Of course a negative of this route is that I would have to delay any improvements on this field for a few years.

My question is, would it be a good idea to let a local farmer plant crops on this field for a few years? What do you think? Thanks for your help!

 

[Native Hunter]

If a farmer did "no till" crops (as nearly everyone does now) it might not do much to help level out the humps. The humps might even deter them from wanting to farm the field.

However, if someone has a big, heavy plow and disk, that would really do the trick. Fifteen acres isn't all that large, and if someone was close by that had some farming equipment, you might just be able to hire them (at a modest cost) to get the field leveled out for you. That way you wouldn't have to do the waiting.

If you do decide to do the farming, make sure that the farmer understands what your goals are and get him to commit that what he does will get you to where you want to be.

 

[j-bird]

I'm with Native in that your best bet would be hiring the work out locally to someone that has the equipment....if you have that as an option. 15 acres isn't a lot to a person with ag size equipment....however it's a lot if your working with an ATV. I have a 30hp tractor, 2 bottom plow and a 6' disc and 10' boom sprayer and I wouldn't want to take on that job! That's a lot of tractor seat time for my small equipment.

 

[Hob 'n Grind]

Thank you for the advice guys. What are your thoughts on hiring someone with the right equipment to till/resurface the field and then let the field grow up afterward? I have read some information about old field habitat but I'm not sure if the cool season grasses would just come right back or not.

 

[Native Hunter]

I think it's worth a try. The worst that can happen is you won't get tall enough cover. If that happens, you can just kill everything and start over with whatever you want to plant.

As far as the cool season grasses, you can gly kill them in the spring before warm season weeds and grasses emerge and/or germiate. For this I would use a boom sprayer. You won't get 100% kill, but it will be good enough. Then, after the initial kill - with only 15 acres you can then watch what comes up and do some spot spraying with a 25 gallon tank in the back of a pickup truck to take care of any really bad stuff that emerges. If I could do this on nearly 60 acres, you can do it on 15.

As previously eluded to, height is critical in getting deer to use a field. If you get a bunch of short weeds that won't hide the deer, it will only get used at night time unless you have extremely low hunting pressure. If you have something like Canada Goldenrod come up, that is a good weed for cover and it should really take hold once the cool season stuff is knocked back - unless you have something bigger and badder than the goldenrod. That would be okay too - unless it is some unwanted invasive.

Good luck.

 

[Sampson]

I may have missed it but how much land do you own and how much of an impact is the 15 acre field to your land usage? If it’s a relatively small part of the property you can work it in at smaller increments over the years, without impacting your other activities such has hunting, camping or whatever. Maybe 1/3 or even half of the field would be done this year and the remaining next year.

I’m an instant gratification guy as much as anyone here. So hiring it out and getting it leveled would be tops on my list. But I also understand the need to recoup some cash after just making the purchase. You may work out an agreement with a local farmer to level and plant it, leaving you a small corner spot of standing corn as a small kill plot. If the price is right a local farmer will most likely be interested in farming it.

What are your overall management goals for your place? Pictures help us get an idea of the land layout and what your working with.
Congrats on the purchase it will be the best investment of your life money wise, IMO.




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[Sampson]

Heck, better yet jump in with both feet and start a property thread so we can watch your progress as you go.

We have a lot of serious land mangers here that can offer solid advise for whatever your wanting to do with the place.

Got a name for your new spread?



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[dogghr]

I think those bumps and ditches will drive you crazy over the years if you don't just address the issue now before you have good growth of something you don't want to destroy. But here is one caveat. Those deep ditches with proper screening might be used for hunter access. Not sure lay of your land and your efforts. In addition, a little concerned of what the water tx actually dumped into soil over time. It might hinder for a while your growing efforts. Id do a soil test now to see those results. My guess is at best it needs lime.
For not much dollars/hour, proper equipment could make that 15 acres really nice in just a day or so.
As for initial planting, you might treat it as one would a mine reclaim initially giving good browse growth, erosion control, and building soil character. Grains and clovers and brassica are you friends in poor soil Could still have a couple foodplots within that 15 while soil is improving. Good luck.

 

[Hob 'n Grind]

I think it's worth a try. The worst that can happen is you won't get tall enough cover. If that happens, you can just kill everything and start over with whatever you want to plant.

As far as the cool season grasses, you can gly kill them in the spring before warm season weeds and grasses emerge and/or germiate. For this I would use a boom sprayer. You won't get 100% kill, but it will be good enough. Then, after the initial kill - with only 15 acres you can then watch what comes up and do some spot spraying with a 25 gallon tank in the back of a pickup truck to take care of any really bad stuff that emerges. If I could do this on nearly 60 acres, you can do it on 15.

As previously eluded to, height is critical in getting deer to use a field. If you get a bunch of short weeds that won't hide the deer, it will only get used at night time unless you have extremely low hunting pressure. If you have something like Canada Goldenrod come up, that is a good weed for cover and it should really take hold once the cool season stuff is knocked back - unless you have something bigger and badder than the goldenrod. That would be okay too - unless it is some unwanted invasive.

Good luck.

I like this idea. I'll ask the local farmers in the are to see if I can get anyone interested in helping me out. From my research it looks like early April may be a good time to spray the grasses, while they are growing and other warm season plants are still dormant. Thank you

 

[Hob 'n Grind]

I may have missed it but how much land do you own and how much of an impact is the 15 acre field to your land usage? If it’s a relatively small part of the property you can work it in at smaller increments over the years, without impacting your other activities such has hunting, camping or whatever. Maybe 1/3 or even half of the field would be done this year and the remaining next year.

I’m an instant gratification guy as much as anyone here. So hiring it out and getting it leveled would be tops on my list. But I also understand the need to recoup some cash after just making the purchase. You may work out an agreement with a local farmer to level and plant it, leaving you a small corner spot of standing corn as a small kill plot. If the price is right a local farmer will most likely be interested in farming it.

What are your overall management goals for your place? Pictures help us get an idea of the land layout and what your working with.
Congrats on the purchase it will be the best investment of your life money wise, IMO.




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Hi Sampson,

The property is ~37 acres, split almost exactly 50/50 between field and wooded. So, this 15 acre field is a big chunk of the total property. I had a couple NRCS reps out to take a look at the property and they said the best bang for my buck in improving the property for wildlife would be to work on the field. They rated the wooded area a 9/10 in terms of habitat quality and said it was perfect woodcock habitat. My goal is to be able to shoot mature bucks on the property, as well as improve the habitat for all wildlife.

I was able to see a very large mature buck for our area on this property multiple times last year but was not able to seal the deal. I was able to take a respectable buck in rifle season and I believe the mature buck may still be hanging around. This may be more info than is necessary for this post so I will take your advice and start a property thread where I can share all of this info.

It may not be a glamorous name but "Spray Field 40" seems like an appropriate name haha. Thank you for the reply.

 

[Hob 'n Grind]

I spoke to a local farmer and am going to meet up with him next week to look at the field and see about him spraying and smoothing it. I'm going to try the route of not having it farmed.

 

[THE LLC]

If you can find someone, let them farm it. Make a little money off it while getting it like you want it. Plus the crops will feed the deer a while.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Find someone to farm it, and give him at least a 4 year lease. That way, the guy will likely do what needs to be done to get a crop out the right way. A one year lease will get a poorer fertility plan. Longer term, he may put on some lime, and build up some nutrients. Just be sure he's not putting down stuff with multi-year broadleaf suppression like Halex GT.

Then, as part of your sweetheart deal to him, just work out a plan to leave a few acres stand for the animals.

If they were spraying muni-turd water out there, I'd get some zone soil samples done. If it's flat, I'd just do 3-5 acre grid samples. You wanna be looking for high salts and excess nutrients like phosphorus and potassium. Manure is good, but too much manure can lead to problems. Even if they put on appropriate rates, it doesn't mean the soil properly flushed all the salts.

Make sure you get quality soil samples done. Don't do anything free or that costs less than $25. If they're half that price or more, it's because they're running half the tests or less.

Be sure to get buffer pH, CEC, base saturation, and micros on top of all the normal stuff. I highly recommend Midwest Labs (S3C test) if you don't already know of a good lab. $100 here can save you from wasting a thousands down the road.

Start watching this video at the 1:50 point.

 

[Sampson]

Welcome H&G, I am looking forward to your progress and your property thread. I think talking to a local farmer is your best bet and hopefully you both can get the benefits of working together.

I am glad to hear your already seeing a good buck on the place and the hunting should only get better. Post some trail camera pics if you have any.

Keep us posted on your meeting with the local and what you get worked out.

The property thread is a good way to document your progress and take lots of photographs. I wish I had done one for my place when I first got it. In years to come you’ll forget how rough it really was when you first started and how far you’ve come in your journey. You can document what worked and what didn’t, not all improvements will be a success or turn out the way you hoped.

Spray Field 40, is a great name.

Sampson


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[Mennoniteman]

Welcome to the forum to a fellow Pennsylvanian. What town are you close to? Spray Field 40 sounds like a great name. Farmers usually can work cheaper per hour with their equipment than an excavator, with the right farmer it should be a simple thing to get the field level and start on the right terrain. I'd like to see you getting some trees planted in the field, within 4 years you would have a fruit crop instead of just an empty field. My favorite for deer is pears, easy to grow and a great attractant. Post an aerial photo and the guys will give you suggestions on layouts for food plots and trees.

 

[Hob 'n Grind]

Find someone to farm it, and give him at least a 4 year lease. That way, the guy will likely do what needs to be done to get a crop out the right way. A one year lease will get a poorer fertility plan. Longer term, he may put on some lime, and build up some nutrients. Just be sure he's not putting down stuff with multi-year broadleaf suppression like Halex GT.

Then, as part of your sweetheart deal to him, just work out a plan to leave a few acres stand for the animals.

If they were spraying muni-turd water out there, I'd get some zone soil samples done. If it's flat, I'd just do 3-5 acre grid samples. You wanna be looking for high salts and excess nutrients like phosphorus and potassium. Manure is good, but too much manure can lead to problems. Even if they put on appropriate rates, it doesn't mean the soil properly flushed all the salts.

Make sure you get quality soil samples done. Don't do anything free or that costs less than $25. If they're half that price or more, it's because they're running half the tests or less.

Be sure to get buffer pH, CEC, base saturation, and micros on top of all the normal stuff. I highly recommend Midwest Labs (S3C test) if you don't already know of a good lab. $100 here can save you from wasting a thousands down the road.

Start watching this video at the 1:50 point.

Very interesting. I don't know all that much about wastewater treatment so getting some thorough soil testing makes sense. Is this something a farmer would typically have done on his own fields? Thanks

 

[Hob 'n Grind]

Welcome to the forum to a fellow Pennsylvanian. What town are you close to? Spray Field 40 sounds like a great name. Farmers usually can work cheaper per hour with their equipment than an excavator, with the right farmer it should be a simple thing to get the field level and start on the right terrain. I'd like to see you getting some trees planted in the field, within 4 years you would have a fruit crop instead of just an empty field. My favorite for deer is pears, easy to grow and a great attractant. Post an aerial photo and the guys will give you suggestions on layouts for food plots and trees.

Hi Mennoniteman. Thanks for the welcome message. I'm located somewhat near Gettysburg. I will start the property thread here shortly when I can put some more pictures together. Getting trees planted sooner rather than later seems like a great idea. I would definitely appreciate the ideas and suggestions on laying out the field. Thanks

 

[MarkDarvin]

Very interesting. I don't know all that much about wastewater treatment so getting some thorough soil testing makes sense. Is this something a farmer would typically have done on his own fields? Thanks

Not necessarily. Some farmers are very intelligent and and do all this themselves. Others have no idea and just pay someone else to do the sampling and figure out what to do. There is a third tier that is 2 notches below retarded that don't do anything at all and just "let the coop tell me what to put on." That usually ends up being the neighborhood blend.

This is the fun part of growing if you're inclined to participate in this. Borrow a soil probe from someone (coop or agronomist) and go out and do it yourself. It is very easy. Give him a case of beer, cause a good probe is $100. If you're really into this like I am, just buy your own probe.

If your field is flat, I'd divide it into thirds and take a sample( 8 cores ) from each third. If it has some up and down, I'd run one test on the top of the hills, one test on the lowest spot, and one inbetween. You also don't need soil test bags. I just send mine in quart freezer ziplock bags.

 

[Drycreek]

I'm gonna go against the grain here on the levelling part. After you terminate the undesirable vegetation, hire a small dozer and let him take care of the highs and lows. He'll have a better understanding and the proper equipment to put the dirt where it needs to go. After that decide what you want growing there and plant it.

 

[MattJK]

Great thread.

If your goal is habitat, why level all of it? I'd speculate that at least a few ditches could improve drainage or at least provide some variety for plants that like wet feet. Better still if you can let a few ditches drain into a water hole or small pond made by the dozer guy who levels the majority of the 15. If you get a weedy area or undesirables, then see if you can have it farmed. Consider a couple years of hay rather than row crops. Often you can get interest in even a 3-5 acre hayfield which would be easy to maintain/convert as a food plot or NWSG.