Turkey and Chicken Litter
- Thread starter dogghr
- Start date
Yup I have used turkey litter on fields and plots when needed for decades.
Some will say it can spread disease to Wild Turkeys and there may be some truth to that. For that reason it is important to know your source. Most integrators require strict bio-security that growers adhere to and are generally quick to treat for any signs of sickness that occurs but there could still be potential for disease transfer once the litter is applied on fields/plots. One major way to help prevent, if not completely eliminate the threat of disease spread is to use litter that has gone through a heat cycle by means of windrowing/stacking/piling the litter. After a few days the litter pile will reach temps of 160° or more which can kill most pathogens. Another benefit of using piled/composted litter is that it tends to break up the caked litter that builds up under feed/water lines during the growth of the flock. Piled litter will have a less offensive odor also.
I mentioned composted litter and to be clear, most poultry farms compost their daily mortality and have moved away from incineration or other means of disposal. I would suggest not using that particular product although if the mortality composting was done correctly, it can be much more nutrient dense and safe to apply. My opinion though is to only use litter that has been piled for a few months and protected from rain/moisture.
Some will say it can pollute waterways and ground water and there is some truth to that also. It is being used as fertilizer and ALL fertilizers pose the same threat. Care and common sense needs to be applied when using these products. From my opinion and experience, poultry litter is more heavily regulated and as of lately, more expensive than synthetic fertilizers. Growers and end-users are required to keep records of applications and dates and to follow Best Management Practices which are available with each transfer of litter.
Now to your question of when to apply. That will largely depend on soil type, slope and crop being grown etc. and I can only speak for my location and soils. Spring time, mid-March - June is generally the preferred application time although when suitable, late Summer applications can be very beneficial. Depending on weather conditions, I generally see a plant response within 2 weeks and gradual slow release that is evident for a year or longer.
It is my belief that litter used correctly - is unmatched for improving soil/plant/animal health.
Some will say it can spread disease to Wild Turkeys and there may be some truth to that. For that reason it is important to know your source. Most integrators require strict bio-security that growers adhere to and are generally quick to treat for any signs of sickness that occurs but there could still be potential for disease transfer once the litter is applied on fields/plots. One major way to help prevent, if not completely eliminate the threat of disease spread is to use litter that has gone through a heat cycle by means of windrowing/stacking/piling the litter. After a few days the litter pile will reach temps of 160° or more which can kill most pathogens. Another benefit of using piled/composted litter is that it tends to break up the caked litter that builds up under feed/water lines during the growth of the flock. Piled litter will have a less offensive odor also.
I mentioned composted litter and to be clear, most poultry farms compost their daily mortality and have moved away from incineration or other means of disposal. I would suggest not using that particular product although if the mortality composting was done correctly, it can be much more nutrient dense and safe to apply. My opinion though is to only use litter that has been piled for a few months and protected from rain/moisture.
Some will say it can pollute waterways and ground water and there is some truth to that also. It is being used as fertilizer and ALL fertilizers pose the same threat. Care and common sense needs to be applied when using these products. From my opinion and experience, poultry litter is more heavily regulated and as of lately, more expensive than synthetic fertilizers. Growers and end-users are required to keep records of applications and dates and to follow Best Management Practices which are available with each transfer of litter.
Now to your question of when to apply. That will largely depend on soil type, slope and crop being grown etc. and I can only speak for my location and soils. Spring time, mid-March - June is generally the preferred application time although when suitable, late Summer applications can be very beneficial. Depending on weather conditions, I generally see a plant response within 2 weeks and gradual slow release that is evident for a year or longer.
It is my belief that litter used correctly - is unmatched for improving soil/plant/animal health.
dogghr
Well-Known Member
Thanks Vernal. Good info. I was thinking spring since fall is typically very dry in my area. I will ck on topics you mentioned. Since they are so heavily regulated here I doubt a problem. Lots of use by farmers in the area these days. My soil tests are optimum but Thot might help improve OM even more especially on my ridge plots. Thanks and good to have you on board here.
deer patch
Well-Known Member
Dogghr...As stated it's all going to depend by the grower and when the last time they cleaned out their houses. All things equal turkey litter is good but chicken litter is going to be higher NPK for you. Some growers will pull a sample and have it tested for nutrients. Since you get more rain in the spring that will be your best choose to get the nutrients in the ground just like commercial fertilizer. Just for adding OM to your soil an application anytime will work.
There is some merit to the turkey litter hurting the wild turkey population IMO.
One last thought...If your ground is like mine you have to pick the drier season to get the litter truck in and out without rutting up the plots or worse getting it stuck.
There is some merit to the turkey litter hurting the wild turkey population IMO.
One last thought...If your ground is like mine you have to pick the drier season to get the litter truck in and out without rutting up the plots or worse getting it stuck.
buckhunter10
Well-Known Member
What is recommended per acre of you are just adding to increase om?
dogghr
Well-Known Member
I'd be adding to improve OM and moisture holding on one ridge top in particular. My OM is 4-5 and nutrients are all very high ranges w ph 6.5-7 in my fields. All I attribute to proper seed selection and crop rotation via variations of the LC mix over several years and an " old " farmer who obviously knew what he was doing over a lot of hard working years . All on notoriously poor acidic mountain soils.
Any time you can get high quality litter (1.5 yrs or more in house) is a good time to buy and have litter trucked....WHEN you are starting a soil building program...not when you have a healthy soil built! IF they haul using a spreader truck then you can work with narrow spreading windows of time. If they haul on semis and spread separately, then the litter may sit in piles for some time depending on weather and applicators schedule. Spring litter in a pile that gets wet is not good....nutrient losses, erosive movement with sheet water, slick/stinky spreading decks etc. Truck and spread timing are two factors affecting application timing. The main point is to get as nutrient dense litter as possible....economics....$/lb nutrient.....lb nutrient/ unit compaction risk!
Spring is a time of abundance....adequate moisture.....frequent rewetting of dry soil which makes the soil nutrients available to rapidly growing spring plants. If one has been practicing soil health management for several years and has a diverse landscape, then I will seriously question the need for any late winter or spring applications (a light rate of synthetic from ATV spread is okay)! Spring infertility indicates a hole in other areas of management (for cattle guys, you should have been pasture strip and bale grazing in winter for even manure distribution). Simply encouraing cool seaon annual or perennial legumes should suffice for adequate spring/early summer fertility need. Also re-evaluate animal density/stocking rate if spring forage abundance is hindered.
Late winter and spring are typically times of saturated or near saturated soils (evaporation and transpiration [ET] rates are low), thus the risk for soil compaction (at 18" depth where hard to alleviate) is the highest during that time of the year. Perennial sod can lessen compaction risk, but it is not immune from wheel traffic compaction in saturated soil. Annual crop rotations are most susceptible to spring wheel compaction. Further, the aggressive spring growth of plant roots combined with ample and deep soil moisture is the best opportunity of alleviating past compaction.....it is not a time to create new compaction issues on your farm...make sense?
Fall and early winter are far different. Soil supply of plant available nutrients is at an annual low (annual or perennial base). Animals are entering a time of year when forage supply is most lacking (winter deficit) and energy expenditure is high due to breeding activity. Low fertility at this time of year lengthens plant recovery period (often doubles it).....thus potential forage tonnage and plant regrowth rate is reduced without some form enhanced fertility.....make sense?
Late summer is by far our preferred application timing. Why?
1) least compaction risk period
2) increased fall and early winter forage growth rate/tonnage of cool season plants
3) less chance for N loss and P leaching/runoff compared to spring deluge
4) increased animal needs for body realimentation from rut etc
5) 95+% of nutrients in litter are in a stabilized organic form, they require soil biology for activation and that will await proper moisture and temp.
6) Drying and rewetting of soil drive nutrient release of decaying litter and soil OM. So, there will be a second release of nutrients from litter in the spring after a fall application without compaction risk and when fast plant growth can store nutrients for the future!
7) combine the natural decay cycle with an abundance of legumes to meet late winter/spring and early summer fertility need!
8) less chance of litter piles getting too wet and lower demand of litter from other producers (good supply)
One other factor not mentioned is application timing will affect plant types on the landscape over the long term of a litter program. An application in mid-spring to mid-summer will summer will promote warm season forages....early summer also a time of less compaction risk (ET rates are high). Late summer application promotes cool season plants. It may be best to vary your application timiming to keep the landscape in balance.
There is a lot to consider.....a bit more detail than in my text message....dogghr!
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Spring is a time of abundance....adequate moisture.....frequent rewetting of dry soil which makes the soil nutrients available to rapidly growing spring plants. If one has been practicing soil health management for several years and has a diverse landscape, then I will seriously question the need for any late winter or spring applications (a light rate of synthetic from ATV spread is okay)! Spring infertility indicates a hole in other areas of management (for cattle guys, you should have been pasture strip and bale grazing in winter for even manure distribution). Simply encouraing cool seaon annual or perennial legumes should suffice for adequate spring/early summer fertility need. Also re-evaluate animal density/stocking rate if spring forage abundance is hindered.
Late winter and spring are typically times of saturated or near saturated soils (evaporation and transpiration [ET] rates are low), thus the risk for soil compaction (at 18" depth where hard to alleviate) is the highest during that time of the year. Perennial sod can lessen compaction risk, but it is not immune from wheel traffic compaction in saturated soil. Annual crop rotations are most susceptible to spring wheel compaction. Further, the aggressive spring growth of plant roots combined with ample and deep soil moisture is the best opportunity of alleviating past compaction.....it is not a time to create new compaction issues on your farm...make sense?
Fall and early winter are far different. Soil supply of plant available nutrients is at an annual low (annual or perennial base). Animals are entering a time of year when forage supply is most lacking (winter deficit) and energy expenditure is high due to breeding activity. Low fertility at this time of year lengthens plant recovery period (often doubles it).....thus potential forage tonnage and plant regrowth rate is reduced without some form enhanced fertility.....make sense?
Late summer is by far our preferred application timing. Why?
1) least compaction risk period
2) increased fall and early winter forage growth rate/tonnage of cool season plants
3) less chance for N loss and P leaching/runoff compared to spring deluge
4) increased animal needs for body realimentation from rut etc
5) 95+% of nutrients in litter are in a stabilized organic form, they require soil biology for activation and that will await proper moisture and temp.
6) Drying and rewetting of soil drive nutrient release of decaying litter and soil OM. So, there will be a second release of nutrients from litter in the spring after a fall application without compaction risk and when fast plant growth can store nutrients for the future!
7) combine the natural decay cycle with an abundance of legumes to meet late winter/spring and early summer fertility need!
8) less chance of litter piles getting too wet and lower demand of litter from other producers (good supply)
One other factor not mentioned is application timing will affect plant types on the landscape over the long term of a litter program. An application in mid-spring to mid-summer will summer will promote warm season forages....early summer also a time of less compaction risk (ET rates are high). Late summer application promotes cool season plants. It may be best to vary your application timiming to keep the landscape in balance.
There is a lot to consider.....a bit more detail than in my text message....dogghr!
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That depends on many factors....production type, soil fertility level, terrain, litter moisture content, etc. For the best soil response, good dry litter (14-18% moisture) needs to be spread evenly over every acre foot......this is normally attained with rates of 2-3T per acre for most spreader trucks.....spreads can be very uneven at 1T or 4+T application rates. A hay producer should use 3T rates while a grazier should use 2T rates.
When using manures, you soil is responding to the 'even distribution of manure' which was lacking in past management!
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Yes.....good past soil management steps...it is time for you to think deeper and fine tune your management.....consider one application each 3-5 years vs annual applications....when you apply to avoid compaction at 18"....etc....etc.
That is a true tenet.....uneven manure distribution is big primer for low fertility soils.
If one economically values the 500-600 lb carbon per ton of litter and the supply of secondary and trace elements, then the economics of litter are excellent compared to synthetic! The problem is that we live in a society where NPK are still the end all of agronomy despite the knowledge that plants require 40+ known elements.....carbon is not valued.....many times secondary and trace elements are not valued (despite known soil/forage Zn and Cu deficits in some areas).
To change one's way of thinking start by evaluating litter a bit differently......500-600 lb carbon is equivalent to 2-3T of cereal rye you didn't have to plant.....you know what the seed and establishment cost is for that....secondary and trace nutrient costs are easy enough to get....add that all up and economics way favor manure! The microbial inoculants and microbial byproducts in manure also have soil stimulating properties...kinda hard to value that one and I don't know of anyone doing so....but the more 'manure responsive organisms' that I attract to the farm then the faster the soil build!
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dogghr
Well-Known Member
See… I knew if I came up with good enough question I could pull you our from under the covers, D. Good explanation and while more in depth than I am capable of explaining, it basically supports what I was thinking. I would only do it if my coop would spread it for me. No compaction for me at 18" as that is basically my bedrock. Thanks for the response everyone.
The point I was intending about poultry litter being "more expensive than synthetic" is that the more expensive a product is, the more conservative one would hopefully be. There have been times in the past where poultry litter was basically free to anyone with no limit on the amount used/applied. During those times I have seen evidence that "moderation in all things" is a true tenet as well.
As mentioned in my post, I honestly do have decades experience with this topic and am fully aware of the true value of poultry litter and would like to share further on this. The highlighted statement in your post presents an opportunity to hopefully inform those who may be new to the ins and outs of poultry litter; at least in some regions.
One of the reasons I replied to dogghr is that I am fairly close to his location. Matter of fact, I have a good friend in Durbin, WV who is employed delivering semi loads of shavings (bedding for poultry barns) to locations throughout WV and VA. Dogghr may even know where one of his sources is located. This operation brings in logs of Western Red Cedar to be used in home construction where the logs are milled to spec. 20 - 40 tons of kiln dried shavings a day is produced at times. The aroma of western RC is quite pleasing to me and I've never had any adverse reactions to it but quite a few folks will have a severe allergic reaction when exposed to the shavings/dust. This wood also has a high natural resistance to decay. The point here, is in this area it is possible to find turkey 'brooder' litter for sale which is litter that has only had one flock of turkey poults cycled for 4-5 weeks with very little actual manure. The vast majority of the bedding used in this area is locally sourced Pine species and on occasion, Poplar is used. Either way, this type turkey litter will not have the full benefit found in multi cycled 'grow out' litter.
A significantly more important "evaluation" that should not be ignored is the fact that in this area, various diseases are present. One of which is Gangrenous dermatitus (aka, gangrenous cellulitus, wing rot, red leg). It is associated with strains of Clostridium and Staphylococcus. On farms where this disease is present, various litter management techniques are employed in an attempt to minimize the out of control mortality that can occur. Some of those management decisions employ the use of alum, aluminum sulfate, sodium sulfate, salt and other treatments to reduce the incidence of GD. Some are used as drying agents while other forms of litter treatments are used to produce a dramatic shift in litter pH which may reduce or inhibit microbial growth. Some of these treatments may only affect litter conditions for a short period of time. However, end-users should be made aware of all the consequences involved with these materials and that such additions may mean that some sources of litter cannot be safely applied to land. So yes, to your point of careful evaluation of what exactly you may or may not have in total value or 'cost'.
I only mention this to bring awareness to dogghr and others who may be considering this resource. I stand by my claims of the GOOD that can come from the use of poultry litter and that "knowing your source" should not be taken lightly.
Doug,
Good discussion is an easy way to drag me from the cave. Spoke with deerpatch this week...he said to tell you hello!
Narrow wheels....high lbs/sq inch.....at some depth compaction will occur which is my point....best insurance is to wait for the right conditions (patience can be an illusive virtue). Balloon tires are great on spreader trucks, but when spreading pasture, stobs and other hazards can be costly.
Shallow bedrock may pose a moisture storage issue (reduced soil volume), the lateral flow of water across bedrock slows the clearance of excess water and keeps moisture near the root zone longer......that is in contrast to deep porous soils where water can do deep and fast out of root reach soon after rain events.
Shallow bedrock poses a 'slow internal drainage issue' which can affect rooting depth due to anaerobic conditions. Our base soil is what it is.....we must manage accordingly and in realism. Wish we had more time during your visit....I could have shown you the seeps which now appear due to our changes in forage/soil management....the improved water percolation has made a drastic difference in forage yield and persistence on high ground. In some areas, we will be unlikely to alleviate the internal drainage issue....which is fine as Nature will provide the plants which tolerate wet soil over time.
Most bedding in this area is rice hulls (high in silica) due to reasonable proximity to rice growing areas of lower Mississippi delta. It would actually be closer for them to use wood shavings from timber operations in the western hardwood forest. So go figure the logistics there....suspect litter or something else of more value is being backhauled to the delta!
Wood shaving bedding is all the more reason to use no-till management. Yes, wood is slow to break down.....yet our forests are not a mile high brush pile because of soil fungi which have adapted to decay wood at the proper rate. Thus, the key to managing application of woody residues to avoid N depletion is to leave them on top of the soil surface so that fungi can degrade them from the soil upward as Nature intended! When woody residue is tilled into the soil (especially a soil lacking sufficient fungi....ie most conventionally farmed soils), N depletion is guaranteed because bacteria join in the decay and they decay things faster and use more soil N than fungi.
Terpenes and other organic solvents can be an issue with evergreen shavings....something to consider. At moderate rates no issue. because when land here is cleared of ERC the ensuing natural succession isn't hindered...instead it is robust even among the carcasses once leaves drop.
Much of the hype about litter is propaganda to promote sales of synthetic fert. Bird growers are more concerned about disease issues of natural origin than they are of in flock/in house disease issues......the issue is becoming more real as biosecurity measures are on the rise in/around houses.
Sulfates are no issue and in many cases a limiting nutrient due to stricter air quality legislation. Sodium in small amounts is a natural component of soil.....many forages are actually sodium deficient compared to animal need...some forages respond to sodium application. Aluminum is like one of the top 5 most abundant soil elements.....so unless thousands of tons of litter were to be applied, then soil aluminum status will remain unchanged.
The easiest way to avoid soil aluminum issues is to lime fields or use regenerative high density grazing to change the topsoil and plant community. Soils with >60% Ca saturation should have no aluminum toxicity issues provided internal soil drainage is optimum (ie good soil water percolation). Combining litter and lime applications can accelerate the soil building process on depleted soils...from a physical rather than a chemical (pH) standpoint.....both litter and calcium affect both the physical and biological soil aspects which many don't consider in soil management.
Back to my cave fellas!
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Good discussion is an easy way to drag me from the cave. Spoke with deerpatch this week...he said to tell you hello!
Narrow wheels....high lbs/sq inch.....at some depth compaction will occur which is my point....best insurance is to wait for the right conditions (patience can be an illusive virtue). Balloon tires are great on spreader trucks, but when spreading pasture, stobs and other hazards can be costly.
Shallow bedrock may pose a moisture storage issue (reduced soil volume), the lateral flow of water across bedrock slows the clearance of excess water and keeps moisture near the root zone longer......that is in contrast to deep porous soils where water can do deep and fast out of root reach soon after rain events.
Shallow bedrock poses a 'slow internal drainage issue' which can affect rooting depth due to anaerobic conditions. Our base soil is what it is.....we must manage accordingly and in realism. Wish we had more time during your visit....I could have shown you the seeps which now appear due to our changes in forage/soil management....the improved water percolation has made a drastic difference in forage yield and persistence on high ground. In some areas, we will be unlikely to alleviate the internal drainage issue....which is fine as Nature will provide the plants which tolerate wet soil over time.
Most bedding in this area is rice hulls (high in silica) due to reasonable proximity to rice growing areas of lower Mississippi delta. It would actually be closer for them to use wood shavings from timber operations in the western hardwood forest. So go figure the logistics there....suspect litter or something else of more value is being backhauled to the delta!
Wood shaving bedding is all the more reason to use no-till management. Yes, wood is slow to break down.....yet our forests are not a mile high brush pile because of soil fungi which have adapted to decay wood at the proper rate. Thus, the key to managing application of woody residues to avoid N depletion is to leave them on top of the soil surface so that fungi can degrade them from the soil upward as Nature intended! When woody residue is tilled into the soil (especially a soil lacking sufficient fungi....ie most conventionally farmed soils), N depletion is guaranteed because bacteria join in the decay and they decay things faster and use more soil N than fungi.
Terpenes and other organic solvents can be an issue with evergreen shavings....something to consider. At moderate rates no issue. because when land here is cleared of ERC the ensuing natural succession isn't hindered...instead it is robust even among the carcasses once leaves drop.
Much of the hype about litter is propaganda to promote sales of synthetic fert. Bird growers are more concerned about disease issues of natural origin than they are of in flock/in house disease issues......the issue is becoming more real as biosecurity measures are on the rise in/around houses.
Sulfates are no issue and in many cases a limiting nutrient due to stricter air quality legislation. Sodium in small amounts is a natural component of soil.....many forages are actually sodium deficient compared to animal need...some forages respond to sodium application. Aluminum is like one of the top 5 most abundant soil elements.....so unless thousands of tons of litter were to be applied, then soil aluminum status will remain unchanged.
The easiest way to avoid soil aluminum issues is to lime fields or use regenerative high density grazing to change the topsoil and plant community. Soils with >60% Ca saturation should have no aluminum toxicity issues provided internal soil drainage is optimum (ie good soil water percolation). Combining litter and lime applications can accelerate the soil building process on depleted soils...from a physical rather than a chemical (pH) standpoint.....both litter and calcium affect both the physical and biological soil aspects which many don't consider in soil management.
Back to my cave fellas!
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I'm getting the feeling I should not have replied to this topic and will make this my last post on this forum.
To imply I may be spreading propaganda is something I fail to see and I have no interest to engage in conversation with anyone who chooses to resort to that type condescension. Anyone who has the ability to participate on a forum should be able to do a search on the issues I have brought up and determine if it is in fact propaganda.
Over and out
To imply I may be spreading propaganda is something I fail to see and I have no interest to engage in conversation with anyone who chooses to resort to that type condescension. Anyone who has the ability to participate on a forum should be able to do a search on the issues I have brought up and determine if it is in fact propaganda.
Over and out
dogdoc
Well-Known Member
Vern, I'm a little confused and think you may be reading too much into Doug's response. Obviously you 2 are very knowledgeable on this issue while myself on the other hand have no experience with poultry litter and it's effect on soil.
Hope ya change your mind and decide to stick around.
Todd
deer patch
Well-Known Member
Vernal, I know dgallow well. I don't think he is talking about you at all. Instead he is talking about the industry that is making the syn. fertilizer and their claims of litter spreading propaganda just to sell more syn fertilizer. I to have been around litter all my life as my dad raised birds for a living for 40 plus years. As he stated bedding is location dependent as rice hulls is the mainstay in this area. Some of the litter in our area is being hauled to Iowa as I type this as I saw a load leave earlier this morning headed that way.
If someone is wanting to raise NPK in their soil and not needing the OM as much try to find a poultry grower that cakes out their houses between flocks. Cake is pure Poultry Poop without the bedding. It is all dependent on BMP by the grower. I have seen houses with very little cake and then I've seen wall to wall cake. Just some food for thought.
If someone is wanting to raise NPK in their soil and not needing the OM as much try to find a poultry grower that cakes out their houses between flocks. Cake is pure Poultry Poop without the bedding. It is all dependent on BMP by the grower. I have seen houses with very little cake and then I've seen wall to wall cake. Just some food for thought.
Vernal....nothing directed at you in any way.
That comment is a general one directed at the Ag industry and extension recs and their common ploys based on past history of myself and other consultant experiences. I could write a book on wives tales of manures.
Not accustomed to this new forum and new audience, so my hidden jabs at industry may be taken the wrong way.
Anyway, I apologize if I have insulted you....please keep bringing your knowledge to this forum for folks who are not so well versed.
That comment is a general one directed at the Ag industry and extension recs and their common ploys based on past history of myself and other consultant experiences. I could write a book on wives tales of manures.
Not accustomed to this new forum and new audience, so my hidden jabs at industry may be taken the wrong way.
Anyway, I apologize if I have insulted you....please keep bringing your knowledge to this forum for folks who are not so well versed.
vernal - I noticed your report 4 minutes after you posted it. All the mods and admin looked it over and we could not determine any ill intent. Looked like simple discussion and Doug has apologized above if this was taken in the wrong way. We think you would be a great asset to our forum and certainly hope you decide to stay and share your knowledge with the rest of the forum.
