The New Coyote and Other Predators..... Can You Win? Part 2, Black Bear and Others

[dogghr]

Prologue..Ah this one should be simpler . Couple reasons. First many have no bear or very few in their area so they don't worry about them. Second, its a different animal with somewhat less seasons and harder to manage. And maybe less misinformation with them. And if I don't get too bored we may throw in the bobcat which is another common decent fawn predator.
But make no mistake, if you don't have large black bear number now, you will in the near future. Lets start journey number 2. More of an animal education than anything so you can be familiar when they show on your back porch.

The Black Bear
I remember the first black bear I saw as a child. She was enjoying an iron skillet of bacon and eggs with a side order of coffee from a fellow campers breakfast preparation. He got the bright idea that he would scare the seemingly docile bear away from his picnic table. The sow charged him, stomping her feet into the turf and popping her teeth with hair bristled letting him know she'd leave when ready and best not mess with her 300 pounds. . The camper changed his idea quickly and let her be. I stood amazed as a 9 yo just yards away.
Despite decent numbers in this state, it would be years before seeing another. And then It was like a flash of rolling black fur as it sped by my stand, hardly being able to tell whether it was a furry dog or bear. And that is how most of you will ever see one. They seldom stay long and usually your sighting will only be as they run away after scenting human.
Two years ago I was deer hunting with my recurve, watching a yearling feed on a rye planted road at my farm. A typical dry leaf day that even the slightest movement made noise in the leaves. Suddenly the deer bolted, and me confused as to why. Then beneath my stand, as quite as a mouse stood a fine boar. Amazing how something so fat, could move so quietly. I drew, but could never get a good broadside shot and he finally lumbered over the point.
Like I said, if you don't have them, you will, and in good numbers. They are exploding, spreading westward, and becoming accustomed to civilization. Much of the public enjoy them until they tear down their bird feeder, or lay on their deck, rip into their jeep top, or rip open the belly of their dog. They are breeding and growing in number much as the deer did several decades ago.
Bears typically average 250-500#. They are opporturnistic omnivores. They will roll over a thousand pound log for grubs, or rip a stump from the ground, or gingerly pluck blackberries from the vine with their lips, and indeed take a fawn. Unlike the coyote, the doe has little ability to defend off the threat on such a large animal. They typically breed in May and June but the embryo does not implant until the sow goes into her fall den. If she enters in health state that is not conducive for her and the offsprings survival, then the embryos do not implant and no birth occurs.
They are not true hibernators and can arise especially on warm days thru the winter. They do not urinate or defacate while hibernating. They can awaken to defend the den and wolves are notorious for raiding the dens in winter. The young are born blind and toothless in January and nurse on the mother till spring. Typically twins or triplets. They stay together for 2 years at which time they leave when the sow is ready to breed again. Bears reach maturity about 4-5 years and breed every 2-3 years. Lifespan is up to 20+ years. They have great hearing, awesome smell, and poor nearsighted eyes. They can run 35 mph, and climb 100 ft up a tree in just a few seconds.
Expansion. WV is good example. 40 years ago there were less than 500 bear. Today, more than 14000 with annual kills of 3-4000. That's a 25+ increase population in just a few decades. Makes for .68 bear/sq mile. There is a season in every county, lasts for 4 months, and is concurrent with rifle seasons. In addition, dogs can be trained year round so in essence they are aggravated year round.
Studies in the east show bear a predator of fawn equal to or greater than coyotes most of which occurs within the first 5 wks of fawn birth. They can cover a range of 40 sq miles so lots of exposure possibilities for predation. I feel I have more predation from bear than coyote but that is just my opinion.

How to manage? Yea this changes everything and why you don't hear as much hoopla from managers of how bear are destroying their deer herd. Different ball game when bumping into something in the dark that weighs more, is much stronger, has bigger teeth, bigger claws than you. Suddenly you don't seem so much the apex predator. You can't just walk up to one as it lays in the weeds held by a snare or leg hold trap and shoot it between the eyes with your .22 and move on. Seasons are more limited, techniques are more limited. I've had as many as 7 bear calling my 100 home in the past. I have a resident sow that has produced twins every 2 years since I've owned and know her quite well. I've never had an issue and I've stood just a few feet away a few times. They can scare the pee out of you if they jump from a thicket, running away.
Number one management. Do not in any way provide corn. I don't care if its for food or camera survey. If you do, then just don't complain of the bear. They will lay and eat it till they puke, then eat more. It will attract them from miles around. The other of course as with anything, is promote the most effective bedding and fawning cover you can. Manage your deer for a concentrated fawn drop. Set your harvest. according to anticipated fawn loss from any and all predators including man. And when given the chance, remove bear during the season when the chance occurs if you want.
Like deer they get to know you. I no longer have issues with bear and tree stands or atv or cameras. They know my smell and know me. I changed a card on camera one day and just happen to look up and there sat a bear 20 feet away just watching me do my stuff. We hung out for about 3 minutes while I took pictures till he got bored and shuffled off.
Good luck, you will need it. While I've stood very close to a few of them, in reality they are always in charge more ways than one. Next to deer , they are one of my favorite animals to watch.

Final note for safety. If you meet a bear, don't turn, keep facing and gradually back away. If need, raise arms to look bigger and talk. Don't make eye contact. Don't run. Don't climb a tree, you won't win that race. Pepper spray is a good idea. BTW, I tried the raise arm idea once with a not too happy sow with cubs and I'm pretty sure she and her 3 cubs just laughed at me. I left backing away and singing some song to make noise. Then cleaned out my pants.

Part 1
http://deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/the-new-coyote-and-other-predators-can-you-win.3600/

 

[Mennoniteman]

I personally saw a bear eating a fawn on my own land several years ago, before I quit growing corn, and had bears everywhere. But the PA bear population is kept at reasonable levels by hunters desperate to fill tags, so the problem only becomes severe if you attract them. They're going to be somewhere, and that somewhere is where someone is feeding them, there's always people who think it's cool to feed them behind their house or cabin, and that's the area where they'll do the most fawn damage. I'll second the no corn statement, and don't put out lard, meat scraps, trash cans, or caramel and chocolate. If you have no food for them you rarely see them in the area.

 

[Native Hunter]

Sorry dogghr, but if I meet a bear on my property I won't be backing up or doing any of those things you mentioned. To the best of my knowledge I still have the right to kill (in self defense) any animal that attacks me. That is exactly what I will be doing.

We had a discussion in the other thread about the word "DOMINION." I guess it's time to bring up another word that goes with it in Genesis 1:28 - "SUBDUE." I realize how dangerous a bear is, but I'm pretty handy with an 870 and 00 Buck too.

The truth is that I would rather be mauled by a bear and die from it than to live without a scratch and take the attitude that we should reverse the dominion that God has ordained.

 

[SwampCat]

As indicated, the bear population is slowly spreading across my home state of AR. We have about 5000 and harvest 500. Mountain lions are also becoming more common visitors to our state. Annual surveys show most predators are increasing in number. No game species - other than bear and alligator - is increasing in number in our state.

 

[dogghr]

Couple finishing touches. Technology the last 10 years has really allowed researchers remove at least some of their field guessing. They now use gps collars that track non stop. DNA testing can confirm what made a kill an animal. Vaginal implants can let a researcher know when a fawn is born, allowing them to immediately place a tracking device. While all of these animals have studies going back decades, the last 10 years has really helped to remove doubt as to when and what killed a prey.
One comment I failed to mention, is a study out of PSU showing predation by bear showed open or ag type land had only a 8% deer mortality by bear whereas forest areas the mortality was 50%. Theorized the overbrowsed woods in some areas didn't provide as good of cover. So that is good news on deer predation for those that don't manage in forested areas. And perhaps incentive to improve foliage for those in forested areas.

Bobcat.
I think this predator has the most varied affect on deer. In the north areas such as Maine, deer make up good percentage of its diet and that occurs most in the winter months. Move south and they seem to not have as much an impact on deer with our obvious peak times being during the fawning months. But some studies show that they can be part of a third of fawn predation in some areas with the males being the most aggressive killers.

There are other predators of deer that haven't seen studies as much as the coyote and probably have less impact. The larger hawks and eagles, and the Fischer are the most common I deal with. Other areas it would certainly include gators, snakes, and perhaps hogs.
I make a lot of assumptions of deer taken by my predators. I of course consider the yote and bear being the primary problems. But in reality, I've never caught on camera, or seen deer predation or its evidence in person. I'm sure it occurs and I plan accordingly with land management, harvest numbers, and if were needed predator removal.
My biggest loss that I am definatley aware of besides hunters, is the highway. I lose 4-6 deer each fall that I'm aware of from its impact, and an occasional bear. If I could make that mile of road a 15mph safety zone for deer, my management would changed considerably.

And so this finishes this two part thread. I hope it perhaps shed some light and some info worth contemplating. With that you should be able to make decisions on your property improving its bedding, fawning, escape cover, food supply, and perhaps removal of predator and reducing the things that tend to attract the animals you least want. Always enjoy what you have and try to learn as much about your habitat and the animals that may call your place home. Peace.

 

[Bowhunter]

We have a growing bear population here as well and I believe that it's taking a large part of our deer population. 15 to 20 years ago we would rarely have any bear sightings, and we would have winter groups of deer in the 35 to 50 range. Now we routinely see bears, usually once a week during the spring and summer months, and our winter deer herds are never more than 10 or 12. The coyotes have always been high in our area, and the only difference that I see is the higher bear population. Unfortunately I haven't seen any bears during our long season to harvest any, but I will if given the chance. Anybody else seeing the same thing happening where they live?

As far as the coyotes go, I don't believe that they play a large or any part in fawn predataion. They are much more focused on the smaller game like rabbits and field mice for their diets...at least in my area I feel this is the case.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Good thread, thanks for starting it. If I may critique your last paragraph, I think you have it in reverse. Think of how you can remove predators first, (not perhaps, but definitely). Most of us long term habitat guys have our food and cover close to it's maximum potential for a long time already. Being overrun with predators because of new and different state game management policies is something that has crept up on us in a subtle way, a little at a time, and only now are the hunters that are left starting to truly understand and realize how bad the situation has become. Thirty years ago PETA & Co. wanted to abolish hunting (and take the guns) but the problem of wildlife populations exploding stood in the way. Now, with most of the state wildlife agencies on board promoting predators over game management, that obstacle is close to being removed. Hunters! Wake up and smell the coffee. Hunting (and guns) could be lost within the next generation.

 

[TreeFan]

I have an 80 in the middle of 30 square miles of wilderness near the self professed "bear capitol", Curran, in northern Michigan. They have a reputation for destroying things, blinds, tree tubes, taking a bite out of the seat of an ATV 4 wheeler. There is a 2 week season at the end of September with a limited number of licenses. Personally, I leave them alone and stay out of there way, especially after an incident where my father and I were turkey hunting on a nice, sunny, late April day. Walking a logging trail, my dad suddenly stopped and said - "bear". I heard "there" and looked 20 yards ahead to see black and said - "yeah there". He said back to me, "no, not "there" - "BEAR". I stepped a couple feet ahead, behind a tree, and worked my turkey box call. It became clear that there was a sow breast feeding 2 cubs about the size of a large raccoon. The sow stood up on it's hind legs and must have been about 7 feet tall. The 2 cubs immediately ran up a nearby tree. The sow ran into the brush and was gone in an instant. The sound of each step was thunderous as it ran away. My dad suggested we leave immediately and I agreed... We walked out keeping a close eye on our perimeter. There aint no way your going to run away from a black bear...

 

[Mennoniteman]

We have a growing bear population here as well and I believe that it's taking a large part of our deer population. 15 to 20 years ago we would rarely have any bear sightings, and we would have winter groups of deer in the 35 to 50 range. Now we routinely see bears, usually once a week during the spring and summer months, and our winter deer herds are never more than 10 or 12. The coyotes have always been high in our area, and the only difference that I see is the higher bear population. Unfortunately I haven't seen any bears during our long season to harvest any, but I will if given the chance. Anybody else seeing the same thing happening where they live?

As far as the coyotes go, I don't believe that they play a large or any part in fawn predataion. They are much more focused on the smaller game like rabbits and field mice for their diets...at least in my area I feel this is the case.

Another coincidence that fits the narrative; PA has set the (4 day, no bait, no dogs) bear seasons so late in the fall that some of the bears have hibernated already, or are only moving at night.

 

[dogghr]

Good thread, thanks for starting it. If I may critique your last paragraph, I think you have it in reverse. Think of how you can remove predators first, (not perhaps, but definitely). Most of us long term habitat guys have our food and cover close to it's maximum potential for a long time already. Being overrun with predators because of new and different state game management policies is something that has crept up on us in a subtle way, a little at a time, and only now are the hunters that are left starting to truly understand and realize how bad the situation has become. Thirty years ago PETA & Co. wanted to abolish hunting (and take the guns) but the problem of wildlife populations exploding stood in the way. Now, with most of the state wildlife agencies on board promoting predators over game management, that obstacle is close to being removed. Hunters! Wake up and smell the coffee. Hunting (and guns) could be lost within the next generation.

Well I didn't realize I was listing those in order of importance but in retrospect I do think most my discussion is toward the new land managers as most others have a grasp of the predator. And perhaps I'm lucky to live in a state that manages differently. With a 4+ month long bear season including dogs and predator seasons year round including night hunting, predator hunting limitations are few here. But in reality the problem many will have with bear harvest is it is no small feat to remove a bear from rugged woods. And while it is easy to throw a coyote over the hill, most here would never do that to a bear. And while we have one of the most intense hunting populations in the country, most of them only care about their venison. The other factor is many hunters really have no desire to walk up in the dark tracking a wounded bear. So these factors will always have affect with bear moreso than other more easily managed predators. And any hunter has that choice.

I have an 80 in the middle of 30 square miles of wilderness near the self professed "bear capitol", Curran, in northern Michigan. They have a reputation for destroying things, blinds, tree tubes, taking a bite out of the seat of an ATV 4 wheeler. There is a 2 week season at the end of September with a limited number of licenses. Personally, I leave them alone and stay out of there way, especially after an incident where my father and I were turkey hunting on a nice, sunny, late April day. Walking a logging trail, my dad suddenly stopped and said - "bear". I heard "there" and looked 20 yards ahead to see black and said - "yeah there". He said back to me, "no, not "there" - "BEAR". I stepped a couple feet ahead, behind a tree, and worked my turkey box call. It became clear that there was a sow breast feeding 2 cubs about the size of a large raccoon. The sow stood up on it's hind legs and must have been about 7 feet tall. The 2 cubs immediately ran up a nearby tree. The sow ran into the brush and was gone in an instant. The sound of each step was thunderous as it ran away. My dad suggested we leave immediately and I agreed... We walked out keeping a close eye on our perimeter. There aint no way your going to run away from a black bear...

Funny and cool story to see it nursing its young. And that is how most people will ever see a bear, as it is running away at full speed.

 

[Bowhunter]

Another coincidence that fits the narrative; PA has set the bear seasons so late in the fall that some of the bears have hibernated already, or are only moving at night.

We have the same issue here with the season being too late before the bears go into hibernation. Our northern zone here in New York in the Adirondacks has an opener on September 16th which is a few weeks earlier than our October 1st opener. Its still much earlier than your PA Late October archery season, but still not early enough to effectively hunt them IMO.

 

[SwampCat]

Bears are expanding in areas of my state that one would not consider prime bear habitat. I think the bears themselves are evolving. They are becoming common in the commercial pine timberland of south Arkansas, where hardwoods have been eliminated across vast areas of the state. Historically, in this state, they have been an animal of the hardwood filled mountains and big river bottoms - and only recently started moving into the piney woods. In general, our deer hunters dont care for them - they tear down the feeders, chew up the deer stands and game cameras, get in the deer camps and wreak havoc. Most people I know arent crazy about eating one. Once you pay $1000 for a bear rug, you have all you need.

Alligators and bears are considered game in my state - but only because the g&f classifies them that way. No non-predatory native game species is increasing in numbers in my state - and some have nearly died out. All of the predators are increasing. At some point, you go past equilibrium. While hunters might consciensously share the deer with the predators because we give up our harvest because of declining populations - or in some cases we may be forced to share because the state lowers the bag limit or reduces season. Predators arent going to consciensously share with each other. Nobody is going to make them share. The bears are one more pressure on our game. In our state, we went for years without a confirmed cougar sighting or game cam pic. Now, we have several per year.

The same thing happened to our small game and turkeys. When the fur market crashed - most trappers hung up their traps and most coon hunters lost intersted. Coon, coyote, cat, skunk, and possum numbers exploded. Quail, rabbit, turkey, cotton rat - pretty much evey ground dwelling small animal declined in number - at least at my place. I dont even know someone who owns a pointing dog or rabbit dog anymore.