Replacing Ag Field...

[yukon]

Any thoughts on what to do with the "Ag" portion of my 77 ac parcel in Ohio? The Ag is rented out to a farmer and it's been in corn for 5 years. The deer just live in it come October/November so I end up bumping deer coming/going as the access point is from the barn located within "Ag". (The stands marked 8 and 10 are isolated from the rest of the property due to the Highwall mine below 8/10). So only access to all other stands is from the Ag area. Dark green are food plots. Old fallow field between 4 and 9 in brown; hardwoods between 5 and 7 and the red lines are meant to be a narrow peripheral deer trail that surrounds a sanctuary within. About all I know is the Ag can't be corn....as it provides a destination plot in the middle of my access in prime time hunting season. Part of me wants it in Ag soybeans. Part of me wants to put an orchard in the south west corner. Part of me thinks I need a pond. Part of me thinks to do Craig Harper style and just wait and watch to see what the Ag wants to be. Part of me thinks to replant forest or pollinators with help from the $tate. Thanks for any insight!

 

[Native Hunter]

If the problem is bumping deer from that access point, you don't want anything in that field that will draw deer. This is because you will still be bumping them. In fact, it may be worse, because the tall corn at least provides some cover. If you go with beans, they will still want to be in there, and they can more easily see you. The same goes for pollinator fields, etc....

I would keep the corn and not drive all the way to the barn. Just park as far north as you can and don't go all the way down to the barn. Then walk around the outside edge of the corn on the north side to access wherever you want to hunt. Find where they go in and out of the corn and hunt those areas too (if the wind allows).

Good luck.

 

[Mennoniteman]

First off, congratulations on such a beautiful hunting farm. Properties like yours are not easy to come by, but when you have one they are super fun to take care of.
I like all of your ideas, however, the one I like the best is the soybeans, and the one I like the least is turning the field back to woods. Also, an orchard in tandem with any of these ideas would be a great idea.
Soybeans would, of course, continue the destination plot thing, something that I will discuss more below. Mature woods tend to hold limited value for deer or for property resale, and it's costly to turn woods back into fields. I'd sooner make a permanent early succesional habitat (ESH) field, letting it grow up in saplings and brush, and bush hogging it in alternating strips every 2 years, giving you 4 years of growth between mowings. ESH is one of the ultimate habitats for deer and ESH is also that thick that you could have trail access through it to your other stands without bumping deer.
Back to the destination plot thing,, I have a very similar situation at my own place, my big fields are right around my buildings, right under my nose, and I can sympathize with you, this thing of having destination fields interspersed with stand access roads is not ideal, but it can be made to work, and I've improved access things a bit, something you could possibly do as well, by making some route detours and also planting some cover to lessen bumping deer while moving past destination fields to get to hunting spots.
What ends up happening with human activity around destination fields is that the doe groups tolerate this and live in close proximity to the fields year round, while mature bucks hang out there in the bean fields etc. in the summer, but as hunting season opens and they sense more human activity, they only come to the destination plots at night. So in early archery season the mature bucks are bedding a little further back, and still showing up in the smaller shooting plots in daylight, like at your stands 1, 4, &3, which is exactly where you want them, big bucks concentrated in a small plot within archery range, with the doe groups in the bigger destination fields as the magnet that holds them close, ripe for the picking. I've gotten to the point where I don't mind a bit if we pressure the deer back off of our destination fields, as observation has shown us that they are then more concentrated close by making it easier to harvest one. Getting a particular deer in archery season around a six acre field is almost impossible, get that same deer into a half acre plot makes the hunt easy. But you can't rely on feeding deer year round on half acre plots, they will wipe them out. So you follow what I'm saying, for hunting purposes your almost better to have your destination fields beside your barn, and pressure the deer back into smaller fields for the rut, to get them to a place where you can shoot the one you want.
Just a final observation, considering how mature bucks interact with doe groups, your destination cornfields may have been doing more for your hunting than you realized, I suggest that I wouldn't write corn off just yet.
Also, being that you are in Ohio, you're in the right climate zone to grow summer ladino clover with winter rye, an amazing, balanced year round destination plot species that's cheap and easy to grow and provides almost year round deer food. A large clover/ rye field around your barn with an orchard in the corner might be a nice fit into your setup.

 

[yoderjac]

A lot will depend on your objectives and your location. They will dictate a lot. Just one thought to ponder depending on what they are. Consider what the impact might be or moving the ag to the old fallow field. Depending on prevailing wind, maybe get rid of the NE part of the current ag. Perhaps you could join the current ag western part of the current ag with the old fallow field and put that in ag. It would give you a similar amount of ag total for rental. I don't personally like the idea of planting corn on corn year after year. I'd see if the farmer would be willing to rotate between corn and beans. That is probably better long term for your soil. You might want to consider those small dark green fields for the Harper weed management approach and perhaps one as a small orchard with a clover base.

As for objectives, things I would consider:

Is income an ag important?
Where are you located?
Are you looking to shoot mature bucks only?
Is recreational hunting an objective?
Do you have adjoining properties willing to cooperate for QDM or is improving hunting your intent?

Best of luck!

 

[BenAllgood]

I have a very similar situation with parking and access by a barn and corn field. I have screening cover from the barn and running along the corn field. I use the corn as a destination. My main concern is where my scent is going. I hunt the edges or close to them. I have roads on a couple sides that I can blow my scent to. On another side, I have woods that deer can and do come from regularly. Even though I have sanctuary inside my property, I still don't feel comfortable blowing scent in the direction of my neighbor's woods where they can come from. So, I avoid that side. It makes it difficult or impossible to hunt some really good travel corridors, but i feel I have to so the area deer don't catch on to my presence. From your picture, it looks like you may be blowing scent into more cover. I would be hesitant to do that. I would keep the corn or another crop or early succession food, and put some type of screening by it to hide access.

 

[yukon]

If the problem is bumping deer from that access point, you don't want anything in that field that will draw deer. This is because you will still be bumping them. In fact, it may be worse, because the tall corn at least provides some cover. If you go with beans, they will still want to be in there, and they can more easily see you. The same goes for pollinator fields, etc....

I would keep the corn and not drive all the way to the barn. Just park as far north as you can and don't go all the way down to the barn. Then walk around the outside edge of the corn on the north side to access wherever you want to hunt. Find where they go in and out of the corn and hunt those areas too (if the wind allows).

Good luck.

Thanks, Native! I do park north of the barn and it works really well especially for stand 9. Admittedly, my other access trail cuts directly south of the barn thru the corn to access stands 2-7 so that can certainly be improved circumnavigating the NE section of corn. The farmer describes poor yields and deer/coon damage so we wonder if the deer are spending TOO much time within the corn never having to leave. Not sure the farmer wants to continue corn, either. There is multiple (too many?) light deer trails entering the corn from the south as it's not particularly thick between stands 1-2. (I'm torn with thickening that up in an attempt to limit the number of trails to corn vs. worrying my access being too close to their newly created bedding.). Good thoughts!

 

[yukon]

First off, congratulations on such a beautiful hunting farm. Properties like yours are not easy to come by, but when you have one they are super fun to take care of.
I like all of your ideas, however, the one I like the best is the soybeans, and the one I like the least is turning the field back to woods. Also, an orchard in tandem with any of these ideas would be a great idea.
Soybeans would, of course, continue the destination plot thing, something that I will discuss more below. Mature woods tend to hold limited value for deer or for property resale, and it's costly to turn woods back into fields. I'd sooner make a permanent early succesional habitat (ESH) field, letting it grow up in saplings and brush, and bush hogging it in alternating strips every 2 years, giving you 4 years of growth between mowings. ESH is one of the ultimate habitats for deer and ESH is also that thick that you could have trail access through it to your other stands without bumping deer.
Back to the destination plot thing,, I have a very similar situation at my own place, my big fields are right around my buildings, right under my nose, and I can sympathize with you, this thing of having destination fields interspersed with stand access roads is not ideal, but it can be made to work, and I've improved access things a bit, something you could possibly do as well, by making some route detours and also planting some cover to lessen bumping deer while moving past destination fields to get to hunting spots.
What ends up happening with human activity around destination fields is that the doe groups tolerate this and live in close proximity to the fields year round, while mature bucks hang out there in the bean fields etc. in the summer, but as hunting season opens and they sense more human activity, they only come to the destination plots at night. So in early archery season the mature bucks are bedding a little further back, and still showing up in the smaller shooting plots in daylight, like at your stands 1, 4, &3, which is exactly where you want them, big bucks concentrated in a small plot within archery range, with the doe groups in the bigger destination fields as the magnet that holds them close, ripe for the picking. I've gotten to the point where I don't mind a bit if we pressure the deer back off of our destination fields, as observation has shown us that they are then more concentrated close by making it easier to harvest one. Getting a particular deer in archery season around a six acre field is almost impossible, get that same deer into a half acre plot makes the hunt easy. But you can't rely on feeding deer year round on half acre plots, they will wipe them out. So you follow what I'm saying, for hunting purposes your almost better to have your destination fields beside your barn, and pressure the deer back into smaller fields for the rut, to get them to a place where you can shoot the one you want.
Just a final observation, considering how mature bucks interact with doe groups, your destination cornfields may have been doing more for your hunting than you realized, I suggest that I wouldn't write corn off just yet.
Also, being that you are in Ohio, you're in the right climate zone to grow summer ladino clover with winter rye, an amazing, balanced year round destination plot species that's cheap and easy to grow and provides almost year round deer food. A large clover/ rye field around your barn with an orchard in the corner might be a nice fit into your setup.

Thanks - Love the farm! I bought it in 2021 and can't believe I waited so long to own my own dirt! For those on the fence just make it happen. The farmer is hesitant to plant beans....I think because of the crop damage he saw in the corn? I'm sure he would if I asked. Interesting ESH plan! I sort of had this idea I don't want deer anywhere near the barn for improving access but don't want a parking lot, either. Maybe the ESH would be quick to establish and could couple that with cleverly planted cover for access. Would you cut the strips in any particular pattern?
Every year has improved with the number of mature bucks....4 or 5 shooters this past fall but they absolutely disappeared come October ish. I felt like I had to have bumped than too much as I was hunting a bit agressive but I still need to go back to pics and see how their disappearance corresponds to corn harvest, too. My main food plot failed miserably so your right the corn might have done much more than I thought! Plenty of doe around though. Hadn't thought of just making it an entire destination plot of rye and clover! Might make poaching from the road too easy so I'll have to get some cover on the north end. Just typing all this out helps so thanks for the thoughts!

 

[yukon]

A lot will depend on your objectives and your location. They will dictate a lot. Just one thought to ponder depending on what they are. Consider what the impact might be or moving the ag to the old fallow field. Depending on prevailing wind, maybe get rid of the NE part of the current ag. Perhaps you could join the current ag western part of the current ag with the old fallow field and put that in ag. It would give you a similar amount of ag total for rental. I don't personally like the idea of planting corn on corn year after year. I'd see if the farmer would be willing to rotate between corn and beans. That is probably better long term for your soil. You might want to consider those small dark green fields for the Harper weed management approach and perhaps one as a small orchard with a clover base.

As for objectives, things I would consider:

Is income an ag important?
Where are you located?
Are you looking to shoot mature bucks only?
Is recreational hunting an objective?
Do you have adjoining properties willing to cooperate for QDM or is improving hunting your intent?

Best of luck!

Prevailing winds from the west and southwest. Although stands 1,2 and 3 are a bit lower elevation and often frustratingly protected from the wind inducing some swirl. The old fallow field was originally cleared a couple of years ago but farmer thought it had way too many rocks for drilling.

Income ag is neglible and not important.
Eastern Ohio
Yes, mature bucks only. Although I'll let kids (mine or others) shoot anything. Hunting is priority....not timber, not ag, etc etc.
Neighbor to north wants mature deer, too. 30 acre to east is antihunter. Neighbors to south and west not QDM material.

 

[Native Hunter]

Thanks, Native! I do park north of the barn and it works really well especially for stand 9. Admittedly, my other access trail cuts directly south of the barn thru the corn to access stands 2-7 so that can certainly be improved circumnavigating the NE section of corn. The farmer describes poor yields and deer/coon damage so we wonder if the deer are spending TOO much time within the corn never having to leave. Not sure the farmer wants to continue corn, either. There is multiple (too many?) light deer trails entering the corn from the south as it's not particularly thick between stands 1-2. (I'm torn with thickening that up in an attempt to limit the number of trails to corn vs. worrying my access being too close to their newly created bedding.). Good thoughts!

If deer are utilizing the corn that much, you could pay the farmer for some of the crop and mow some narrow shooting lanes through it at strategic places - like I do with NWSG fields. Deer will travel those lanes and also eat the mowed down corn. My DR mower would be perfect for that task. I would make the lanes about 4 to 5 feet wide. The ones I do in NWSGs are made wider, but the narrower lanes would work well for corn.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Thanks - Love the farm! I bought it in 2021 and can't believe I waited so long to own my own dirt! For those on the fence just make it happen. The farmer is hesitant to plant beans....I think because of the crop damage he saw in the corn? I'm sure he would if I asked. Interesting ESH plan! I sort of had this idea I don't want deer anywhere near the barn for improving access but don't want a parking lot, either. Maybe the ESH would be quick to establish and could couple that with cleverly planted cover for access. Would you cut the strips in any particular pattern?
Every year has improved with the number of mature bucks....4 or 5 shooters this past fall but they absolutely disappeared come October ish. I felt like I had to have bumped than too much as I was hunting a bit agressive but I still need to go back to pics and see how their disappearance corresponds to corn harvest, too. My main food plot failed miserably so your right the corn might have done much more than I thought! Plenty of doe around though. Hadn't thought of just making it an entire destination plot of rye and clover! Might make poaching from the road too easy so I'll have to get some cover on the north end. Just typing all this out helps so thanks for the thoughts!

"Plenty of doe around though" This could be part of your problem of disappearing bucks; too many does. Not shooting does is a myth from the 1970s, and having too many does is not QDMA. The first step is to balance the herd. Do a survey, 1 to 2 does for every buck, then after your herd is balanced, step 2 is to always harvest 1 doe for every buck (button bucks go under the buck column) from there on out, and keep a close eye on the balance. You don't need a huge doe herd to harvest 3 mature bucks every year, all that big antlerless herd does is eat all your food and chase off the mature bucks right before the rut. Shoot some of the old longnose does and your buck hunting will improve, your herd will be easier to feed, your browse lines disappear and the farmer will be happier.

 

[yukon]

"Plenty of doe around though" This could be part of your problem of disappearing bucks; too many does. Not shooting does is a myth from the 1970s, and having too many does is not QDMA. The first step is to balance the herd. Do a survey, 1 to 2 does for every buck, then after your herd is balanced, step 2 is to always harvest 1 doe for every buck (button bucks go under the buck column) from there on out, and keep a close eye on the balance. You don't need a huge doe herd to harvest 3 mature bucks every year, all that big antlerless herd does is eat all your food and chase off the mature bucks right before the rut. Shoot some of the old longnose does and your buck hunting will improve, your herd will be easier to feed, your browse lines disappear and the farmer will be happier.

Absolutely. Ratio was just shy of the 2:1 first couple years of ownership but got significantly worse later into this fall. I had a target buck that I didn't want to muck up with killing does but he's mia so need to kill more asap. I appreciate your insight!

 

[yukon]

If deer are utilizing the corn that much, you could pay the farmer for some of the crop and mow some narrow shooting lanes through it at strategic places - like I do with NWSG fields. Deer will travel those lanes and also eat the mowed down corn. My DR mower would be perfect for that task. I would make the lanes about 4 to 5 feet wide. The ones I do in NWSGs are made wider, but the narrower lanes would work well for corn.

I like this. Thank you.

 

[yukon]

If the problem is bumping deer from that access point, you don't want anything in that field that will draw deer. This is because you will still be bumping them. In fact, it may be worse, because the tall corn at least provides some cover. If you go with beans, they will still want to be in there, and they can more easily see you. The same goes for pollinator fields, etc....

I would keep the corn and not drive all the way to the barn. Just park as far north as you can and don't go all the way down to the barn. Then walk around the outside edge of the corn on the north side to access wherever you want to hunt. Find where they go in and out of the corn and hunt those areas too (if the wind allows).

Good luck.

 

[yukon]

This discussion certainly gives me some thoughts to consider! I think 2024 season was worse for bumping deer because my destination plot failed so miserably in the central part of the property. So perhaps a better question should be whether I keep two destinations plots? Despite being in a less than perfect location the ag field in corn/beans adds some "insurance" for if/when my food plots fail. Good thoughts, all. Thanks!

 

[BenAllgood]

Screening your access to keep from bumping them would be nice.

 

[yukon]

Screening your access to keep from bumping them would be nice.

Just discussed this with a site visit with NRCS yesterday! A pheasants forever rep and state forester also gave some feedback. Pheasants forever felt strongly to go all pollinators with screens to create a soft edge of brush/trees. Forester thought hazelnuts and red cedar might be a good combination to consider for privacy screen on the property perimeter of ag/future pollinators. Anyone have substantial hazelnuts? Quick search says they'll drop Aug - Oct. Be nice to know whether they are done dropping by end of Sept's bow opener. I'll certainly ask forester about non food options, too. He didn't like other conifers mostly because of a fungus that eventually kills them.

 

[Native Hunter]

Just discussed this with a site visit with NRCS yesterday! A pheasants forever rep and state forester also gave some feedback. Pheasants forever felt strongly to go all pollinators with screens to create a soft edge of brush/trees. Forester thought hazelnuts and red cedar might be a good combination to consider for privacy screen on the property perimeter of ag/future pollinators. Anyone have substantial hazelnuts? Quick search says they'll drop Aug - Oct. Be nice to know whether they are done dropping by end of Sept's bow opener. I'll certainly ask forester about non food options, too. He didn't like other conifers mostly because of a fungus that eventually kills them.

Here are some things to consider:

* Depending on your deer density, it may be hard to establish hazelnuts without caging, due to browse pressure.
* One row of hazelnuts will not be thick enough to provide a complete block of visibility. It might take 3 or 4 rows.
* Red cedar makes a good screen, but they are targets for antler rubbing until they get very large.
* Red cedar and hazelnut are both slow to establish. You might have to wait 5 years or more to see good results.
* Even with a decent screen, you may still scare deer on the other side just from the noise you make with a vehicle.
* Bird people may mean well, but they aren't usually the best people to get advice from on deer issues.

Not trying to discourage you and not saying the advice you are getting is bad - just wanting to get all thoughts out on the table so you won't be surprised at anything. Good luck.

 

[BenAllgood]

I agree with @Native Hunter said about scaring deer. If you're having to park at the barn, your vehicle is still going to alert deer with or without a screen. In that case, I like your idea about a pond. If you do the pollinator route, I'd be doing maintenance yearly to keep it short, giving it more summer food value than cover.