Mice Girdled Trees

[BoneCrusher20]

What are odds of my apple trees surviving the summer from being girdled all the way around by mice over winter.

We had big snowfalls this year and i have tree protectors, most go from 18-24" high on tree (guess it wasn't high enough) on my trees but the mice could with deep snow get to about 20" height on trees and there was small orchard where basically every tree was girdled all the way around by mice, 20 some trees about 2" diameter trunks. Also had some older trees about dozen that no longer fit in the tubes, so i had them off, as thought i was in the clear these were 4-5" diameter trees....nope they girdled them as well.

Do i have any hope, likely i get leaf out, not sure by end of summer if any will still be alive and 4" going to be too big to graft and even 2" is too big to graft for what i have available.

 

[Native Hunter]

When a tree is girdled all the way around it is destined to die.

I've never personally done "Bridge Grafting" but have read about it. Here is a link to get you started learning about it, and you can find many more good links on the Internet on this subject.

http://www.ladybug.uconn.edu/FactSheets/trees--bridge-grafting-and-inarching-.php

PS - After you save your trees, you can school the rest of us on the forum in this process. Good luck.

 

[Oakseeds]

If I could get my machine to post a photo, I'd show one with a complete 360 that is alive and doing well today. Treat them with wound dressing if you want; but, give them a chance to recover. My example is an oak tree; don't know if an apple tree is tough enough. Good luck

 

[Native Hunter]

The question was about "girdling," but there needs to be some discussion of what that term really means.

In the forestry industry there is a big difference between "Girdling" and "Ring Barking," and many people confuse the two terms. Ring-barking is understood to remove only the phloem and cambial tissue. Girdling means to remove the phloem, cambial and also cut into the xylem tissue. Girdling will cause a plant to wilt quickly and tissues can die within days. Ring barking however can cause a slow starvation of the root system and can take many months or even years before root tissues start to die.

Just because a tree seems to survive ring barking for a while (which is commonly called girdling but not) doesn't mean that everything is okay. There can and usually will be serious trouble down the road.

And if you want to know about wound dressing, you should avoid it because it does more harm than good. Here is what Purdue University says about it:

https://www.purduelandscapereport.org/article/when-you-prune-it-dont-paint-it/

Good luck with your apple trees.

 

[Oakseeds]

Native .... great post ... somebody help me get my photo up and Native can tell us what the situation is.
I think it is the file size; however, I haven't been able to change it

I'm working on it; be patient and I'll give it my best shot

 

[Mennoniteman]

I'd definitely go on a mouse hunting expedition soon, or, tie a female fixed cat to every tree, they make the best mousers you can get.
I also have a question for you tree guys on girdling; a lot of orchard men paint their orchard fruit tree trunks with white latex paint to slow down mold and insects. Would this also be effective for keeping mice from chewing and girdling trees?

 

[Mennoniteman]

When a tree is girdled all the way around it is destined to die.

I've never personally done "Bridge Grafting" but have read about it. Here is a link to get you started learning about it, and you can find many more good links on the Internet on this subject.

http://www.ladybug.uconn.edu/FactSheets/trees--bridge-grafting-and-inarching-.php

PS - After you save your trees, you can school the rest of us on the forum in this process. Good luck.

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but there's exceptions to every rule and I can get pictures to prove it. I girdled some 6 to 12" gum and beech trees with a chainsaw in 2010, and I got very serious about it, cutting twice around the entire tree in a V cut, 1 1/2" apart and 1 1/2" deep. Some of those trees are still alive today, and doing fine, except for some serious cosmetic scars at the base. I've also had Crabapple trees that looked like they were girdled all the way around that scabbed over and survived. However, I don't think the nibbling went all the way through the three layers to the hard wood. Thanks for giving us the correct names for those layers

 

[Native Hunter]

I'd definitely go on a mouse hunting expedition soon, or, tie a female fixed cat to every tree, they make the best mousers you can get.
I also have a question for you tree guys on girdling; a lot of orchard men paint their orchard fruit tree trunks with white latex paint to slow down mold and insects. Would this also be effective for keeping mice from chewing and girdling trees?

I've only used the white latex paint to prevent sunscald. But, yes some folks add cayenne pepper to the paint to keep rodents from chewing. However, some have reported tree damage from this. You might like to read the following. It is about beavers, but could be applied to other animals.

https://www.beaverinstitute.org/management/tree-protection/

 

[Native Hunter]

I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but there's exceptions to every rule and I can get pictures to prove it. I girdled some 6 to 12" gum and beech trees with a chainsaw in 2010, and I got very serious about it, cutting twice around the entire tree in a V cut, 1 1/2" apart and 1 1/2" deep. Some of those trees are still alive today, and doing fine, except for some serious cosmetic scars at the base. I've also had Crabapple trees that looked like they were girdled all the way around that scabbed over and survived. However, I don't think the nibbling went all the way through the three layers to the hard wood. Thanks for giving us the correct names for those layers

Yes, I have likewise had some trees to scab over. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I also had an apple to have the bark to completely separate from the trunk. The bark got over an inch thick and the tree survived and made apples until it eventually broke off in a storm.

Check out this old thread:

http://deerhunterforum.com/index.ph...cald-on-a-liberty-apple-tree.2447/#post-44129

 

[Native Hunter]

Native .... great post ... somebody help me get my photo up and Native can tell us what the situation is.
I think it is the file size; however, I haven't been able to change it

I'm working on it; be patient and I'll give it my best shot

It sounds like your tree has lived for quite some time, so the damage was probably not extremely deep. There is really no way to know exactly what will happen. I've seen some big gaps filled in over time and I've seen some not turn out so well. Good luck with your tree.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I've only used the white latex paint to prevent sunscald. But, yes some folks add cayenne pepper to the paint to keep rodents from chewing. However, some have reported tree damage from this. You might like to read the following. It is about beavers, but could be applied to other animals.

https://www.beaverinstitute.org/management/tree-protection/

Now you have hit something good!. And it's cheap and easy, just my style, I can lay flat on my stomach in the grass in August applying this stuff while I'm eating apples. Mix white latex paint with sand! This is going to get tested on my spread asap. The pepper idea doesn't seem feasible on a large scale. And wire has many limitations, such as weed growth, and snowfall depth. Sandy paint may even discourage a porcupine from chewing or a buck from rubbing. What for critter likes getting sand in its teeth?

 

[coolbrze0]

Interesting topic & following. As an arborist, if a tree is girdled, it's NEVER a good thing. Coupled w/ apple trees being relatively finicky... I also use white Latex paint to avoid sun scald / bark cracking in the winter.

 

[Native Hunter]

Now you have hit something good!. And it's cheap and easy, just my style, I can lay flat on my stomach in the grass in August applying this stuff while I'm eating apples. Mix white latex paint with sand! This is going to get tested on my spread asap. The pepper idea doesn't seem feasible on a large scale. And wire has many limitations, such as weed growth, and snowfall depth. Sandy paint may even discourage a porcupine from chewing or a buck from rubbing. What for critter likes getting sand in its teeth?

I'm not as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was....

 

[Tap]

...I've never personally done "Bridge Grafting" but have read about it. Here is a link to get you started learning about it, and you can find many more good links on the Internet on this subject.

http://www.ladybug.uconn.edu/FactSheets/trees--bridge-grafting-and-inarching-.php

PS - After you save your trees, you can school the rest of us on the forum in this process. Good luck.

There is a historic apple orchard in Stehekin Washington and they arborists have employed some bridge grafting in the attempt to save these trees. From what I remember, none were actually girded from rodents but there was a lot of damage and rot from ?? (maybe buck rubs?)
The arborists filled in the damage areas with a variety of things. This pic shows spray foam and gravel. But you can see from the pic that the grafts seem to be alive and growing. The trees were full of fruit.


They also bridge grafted suckers as shown in this (poor) photo.
I have had crabs that got rubbed completely around the trunk and the suckers survived and became the "new" tree.

 

[BoneCrusher20]

It sounds like your tree has lived for quite some time, so the damage was probably not extremely deep. There is really no way to know exactly what will happen. I've seen some big gaps filled in over time and I've seen some not turn out so well. Good luck with your tree.

Should guy go and put that "tree wound" stuff they use for grafting on infected areas maybe to see if it can at least help from disease getting in, suppose by end of summer i'll know which ones likely might make it, granted may take some time to be back in their prime shape, but alive none the less.

Also like M - Man's comment on the cats, what good is my house cat doing, should be putting her to work in the fields instead of sleeping all day.

 

[Mennoniteman]

There is a historic apple orchard in Stehekin Washington and they arborists have employed some bridge grafting in the attempt to save these trees. From what I remember, none were actually girded from rodents but there was a lot of damage and rot from ?? (maybe buck rubs?)
The arborists filled in the damage areas with a variety of things. This pic shows spray foam and gravel. But you can see from the pic that the grafts seem to be alive and growing. The trees were full of fruit.
View attachment 18567 View attachment 18568

They also bridge grafted suckers as shown in this (poor) photo.
I have had crabs that got rubbed completely around the trunk and the suckers survived and became the "new" tree.
View attachment 18569

I was impressed with the bridge grafting until I saw the gravel in the filler material? Gravel and wood seems to me like a bad mixture at any time. The arborist that tries to cut these down in 40 years from now is going to be foaming at the mouth.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Should guy go and put that "tree wound" stuff they use for grafting on infected areas maybe to see if it can at least help from disease getting in, suppose by end of summer i'll know which ones likely might make it, granted may take some time to be back in their prime shape, but alive none the less.

Also like M - Man's comment on the cats, what good is my house cat doing, should be putting her to work in the fields instead of sleeping all day.

Our cat brings in a lot of mice. It really gets my wife mad when she lays them on the mat in front of the door.

 

[Tap]

I was impressed with the bridge grafting until I saw the gravel in the filler material? Gravel and wood seems to me like a bad mixture at any time. The arborist that tries to cut these down in 40 years from now is going to be foaming at the mouth.

Yeah, I don't quite understand why they put it in there. I have to assume that these professional arborists, that are maintaining a historic orchard, gotta know more in their little finger that I know in my whole body. Maybe reduces woodpecker damage? IDK.
My point in sharing those pics was to show some examples of bridge grafting.

 

[Native Hunter]

Should guy go and put that "tree wound" stuff they use for grafting on infected areas maybe to see if it can at least help from disease getting in, suppose by end of summer i'll know which ones likely might make it, granted may take some time to be back in their prime shape, but alive none the less.

Also like M - Man's comment on the cats, what good is my house cat doing, should be putting her to work in the fields instead of sleeping all day.

Read that article I posted the link too From Purdue about wound dressing before you decide to use it.

 

[BoneCrusher20]

Read that article I posted the link too From Purdue about wound dressing before you decide to use it.

I might just give this bridge grafting a shot......try to get to as many as i can but at least try to help out some of the ones a little further along in life.