Brassica experts please step inside

[CTM1]

In 2015 I planted Brassicas and although I was late getting them in they did germinate and I did get small radishes and turnips.

In 2016 I was so late due to equipment issues I skipped the brassicas. Had five ton of lime dropped in this one plot as the PH was in the 4's. I have not had another test since, but I will be doing tests this week.

In 2017 I was late getting them in and the night I planted we had big rain. As I recall I was worried that all the seed was going to be washed out and I would have a ton of plants at the bottom of the field. Well not only did I not get brassicas in the plot I did not get them at the bottom of the plot. After that nights rain we went into drought time.

2018 I noticed this 1 acre plot was very wet, in fact the tractor was sinking in on the south end as I was working the left over rye and grasses with the Spring Tooth Chisel Plow . After that hooked up the disc and went it. I followed this up with spreading UREA and worked that in. After that I cultipacked the field, spread the seed and cultipacked again. While the bed was good it was not as smooth as the tiller use to leave it.

I planted on July 31 which was early for me as I am always late with PTT and Radish. As the PTT was left over seed I did a germination test with 10 seeds and all 10 sprouted. The radish was new. On the night that I planted we had heavy rains and that continued for the next few days, and as many in NYS know it seemed to have rained for 30 days straight.

Well I finally had a chance to return to the property last week after almost a month of being MIA from it. As I worked my way up the hill I was expecting to see a glorious sea of brassicas, but to my horror it was all grass and very few tiny little brassica plants scattered here and there.

Here is what we know.
My PH may have a ways to go.
Half the field is wet, very wet with some standing water. You can tell the soil on the south end is more mud than soil. The other half is normal aka rocks.

Should I dig a trench along the top of the field to divert the water that is coming off the mountain and drowning this field. My thought was to make a water hole at the bottom corner. Going to till it under and plant rye this week.

Please save me from myself as I do not think I can take another year of failure after the last two.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thanks

 

[massey]

Think I've read that radishes don't like acidic soil. I think it was 5.8 or so that was a threshold.
Here's the thing I've noticed in 6-7 years of planting radishes, and 15 years of planting pretty much everything else:

Each plant has a specific temperature, ph, and moisture that it LOVES. If you get soil to 7.3 and a soil temp of, say 62 with Lots of moisture, you may get a monoculture of a specific weed. The next year , with different inputs, you'll get a different output.
To grow a specific plant, you need to find out what those inputs need to be and meet them.

Basically, if your inputs don't meet the needs of your specific seed, something else (grass) will take its place.
You essentially need to jumpstart your desired plant to get ahead of the competition or frustration will be the result.

I've had monocultures of lambs quarter, jimson weed, oats, and other things overtake my plots at various times. The key is planning and knowing what your seed requires. Hope this helps. I learned the hard way, just like you.

 

[X-farmerdan]

First, don't even think about a drainage project. Their are more complications and considerations than you can imagine. I have two reactions. First is, waterlogged soils (as it goes without saying) have no oxygen. Plant roots need oxygen. Second, part of the first thought, is wet soils tend to cause root rot. Maybe? Maybe not. My second thought is your just planting your seed too deep. Or, you have some type of self-imposed seeding issue. How big, acres, is this field? One acre? And you added 5 tons of lime? Whoa mule. How much urea? And why all the dirt churning? Does this soil crust when it dries? I think it is possible to create too "fine" a seed bed.

 

[Smallplot]

First, don't even think about a drainage project. Their are more complications and considerations than you can imagine. I have two reactions. First is, waterlogged soils (as it goes without saying) have no oxygen. Plant roots need oxygen. Second, part of the first thought, is wet soils tend to cause root rot. Maybe? Maybe not. My second thought is your just planting your seed too deep. Or, you have some type of self-imposed seeding issue. How big, acres, is this field? One acre? And you added 5 tons of lime? Whoa mule. How much urea? And why all the dirt churning? Does this soil crust when it dries? I think it is possible to create too "fine" a seed bed.

I agree with this 100%. You said there is standing water in part of the plot which is no good for anything to grow.


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[dogghr]

All the above is true. Wet soil tillage is leaving channels so heavy rain is washing seed too deep to grow. It needs just soil contact. Too wet will not let anything grow but grasses. In addition, the urea just gives what is there/grasses/grains to take off since your brasscas are asleep. And for sure dont till that again. You prob have reseeding WR anyways so just surface broadcast a grain and RC and you will have a great plot come hunting season. Next year, plan a little different with the brassica. Good luck.

 

[Elkaddict]

Standing water and brassica don’t go well. Having said that my best brassica plots have moist soil. The trick is to plant when soil is dry enough for the cultipacker not to grab the seed you just put down. Tell us about your cultipacker. What are you using and how heavy is it? Although growth is far from optimal, radishes in particular will germinate in acidic soils. If your soil is even in the mid 5s, you’ll have growth. I’ve watched birds really work over freshly planted plots. Where seeds were not compacted deep enough, they found a significant number of seeds. Just my 0.02.

 

[CTM1]

Hey Guys. Sorry been tied up as I have the nephew up for a visit and I've had him practicing on his new bow as he will be hunting this year for the first time..

As mentioned the PH is a work in progress and I knew it was going to be a multi year endeavor to get the numbers up.

I do not have the 2016 soil test handy but as I recall my soil samples called for almost 20k lbs per acre. Cornell Cooperative recommended 6 ton per acre the first year and a retest two or three years later.

As far as the amount of Urea, I Incorporated 300lbs. I was going to follow up with a top dressing but given there are not enough plants I know I would have been wasting my time and money.

Confused on the rec of not doing a drainage project as I think that is the only way I will mitigate the amount of water that this field seems to get from the runoff. We had big snows at the end of the season and a rapid melt off. We have also had so much rain that this particular field never got a chance to dry out. In truth I think this plot has been pretty wet on the one end since I bought the property in 2015.

I am using am old school double roller cultipacker. Wile the tractor was sinking in the mud, the cultipacker was not getting caked with mud at all so I was not picking up seed.

In a last ditch effort I hit this field with 3oz per gallon of gly today and I am going to try to disc in some oats (never had luck) and then spread rye and pack.

On the up side two of my clover plots are doing very well, with a third that has enough to make it worth saving. I hit each with 1oz per gallon of gly to knock back the weeds and grasses.

As always guys I appreciate the help.

 

[X-farmerdan]

1. Drainage project - OK. Go to your local soil & water conservation office. Everybody has one. Or, the district NRCS office. Let them tell you about drainage and related projects. Ask them how many go right and how many go wrong. Then, ask how much it would cost for you to do it right. Maybe you should first ask what the implications of a drainage project might be.

2. Cornell is one fine university. Take a picture and/or scan the soil test results and put them up here. Nobody, I mean nobody, recommends application of 20K pounds of anything. If its lime, and if they did recommend 10 tons, it would be in multiple applications. One this year. One next year. One the following year. Or, spring and fall split applications. But, I don't believe you are looking at the soil test correctly.

3. Again, I don't understand your need to disk, cultivate, pack, roll. True, oats need to be in the ground. but don't need to be beat to death. How about some rye? Spread those seeds and run the cultipacker over the field. Leave the disc in the barn.

 

[MarkDarvin]

What kind of lime was put on? Any chance you can get the analysis from whomever delivered it? I think you're in need of a new and better soil test before you throw any more money at this.

 

[John Barnes]

Also need to know your % of calcium and magnesium. I'm guessing they are way off, which produces the poor ph and is probably partly responsible for the water problems.

 

[CTM1]

Soil test from Cornell
As you can see I am not crazy as they recommended 8.5 tons per acre for this field. In the second page of this report for this field they said max economic rate was 6 tons and than retest in three years.

 

[CTM1]

What kind of lime was put on? Any chance you can get the analysis from whomever delivered it? I think you're in need of a new and better soil test before you throw any more money at this.

My area has only one source for Ag lime @$58 a ton delivered and spread.. As I recall they told me it was high in magnesium, but I do not have an analysis sheet for it. Not sure I could get one, but I can ask.

 

[MarkDarvin]

So I went back and read the whole thread, did you put down six tons then?

If you did, you likely shot your calcium/magnesium balance way outta whack, no matter what you put down. The high magnesium makes sense given you said it's turning to paste and won't drain. Now you're gonna need a $h*tload of gypsum to swing that back the other way.

Don't think drainage will do you any good, cause your water isn't likely infilatrating very well .

 

[MarkDarvin]

I should maybe clarify what I said. You were going to need some calcium anyway. Putting on that much lime and balancing nutrients was not going to be easy. You were going to need gypsum or some source of calcium anyway. That's the hidden tax of heavy ground, it takes lots of lime and other fertility.

 

[Smallplot]

That is a lot of line. Most places will suggest only putting about 3 or 4 tons per year if it is incoperated. The problem with lime is there is not a instant increase in ph but it can be tracked over years. One of the things I liked about your soil test was the % of OM. You likely lost a big chunk of that with incorporating your lime.
Just something to consider with higher OM soils, a typical soil test may not tell everything necessary for a good crop.

 

[JDunham]

Brassicas don't do well in wet soil, and we have some extremely wet soil this year in upstate NY. The rain just won't stop and most everything is totally saturated. Most of our brassica plots look like hell this year, plots that we have never had problems with before are totally saturated. The few that are doing well are extremely well drained plots.

 

[CTM1]

Brassicas don't do well in wet soil, and we have some extremely wet soil this year in upstate NY. The rain just won't stop and most everything is totally saturated. Most of our brassica plots look like hell this year, plots that we have never had problems with before are totally saturated. The few that are doing well are extremely well drained plots.

I made the mistake of tilling my last field last week in the hopes of getting something else planted and it proved to be a huge mistake. As soon as I ripped it up with the spring tooth chisel plow the ground came alive with water and the entire thing turned into a mud whole.

I cannot recall a summer with this much rain, ever.

Thanks for the help guys. There will always be another year until there is not.