Red Oak acorn question

[Tap]

I'm not an oak expert, but I do know reds from whites and I also know that reds take 2 years to develop acorns. Can someone explain the process of acorn development on the reds?
I have a red that I got as a tiny bare root from the Arbor Day Society about 15 years ago and this year, for the 1st time, it has thousands of tiny acorns on it. Will they be fully mature and dropping this fall, or will they hold-on thru the winter and be mature next year?
I never really understood the "2 year" process of red acorn development.

 

[dogghr]

Short answer, technically reds drop part of their crop and hold part which will drop the next year. So they really can produce yearly but drop almost every year, but do to maturation success, tend to show better some years than others. Reds require about 17 months maturation after pollination while whites are less than 6 months. Whites have a smaller acorn, reds and chestnut oak are larger but with more tannin which prevents their immediate destuction by animals as opposed to whites which are edible from start. Whites do not require cold stratifiacation for growth as do red acorns that require an overwinter of cold in order to root. Whites tend to produce yearly even tho most mast trees run on a a 3 year cycle of heavy production. Freezes during pollination is usually blamed for poor mast production but in reality heavy rains of even dew can hamper pollination moreso which can give poor mast crop in fall.
I did a thread called The Mighty Acorn, which I never finished which summarizes a multitude of studies going back 75 years on the subject if you want more info than a person probably needs. Pretty interesting stuff for the manager. I never got to the point of importance of fire and the acorn. This link might get you there, I'm not too good at this....

http://deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/the-mighty-acorn.1814/

 

[Tap]

Short answer, technically reds drop part of their crop and hold part which will drop the next year. So they really can produce yearly but drop almost every year, but do to maturation success, tend to show better some years than others. Reds require about 17 months maturation after pollination while whites are less than 6 months. Whites have a smaller acorn, reds and chestnut oak are larger but with more tannin which prevents their immediate destuction by animals as opposed to whites which are edible from start. Whites do not require cold stratifiacation for growth as do red acorns that require an overwinter of cold in order to root. Whites tend to produce yearly even tho most mast trees run on a a 3 year cycle of heavy production. Freezes during pollination is usually blamed for poor mast production but in reality heavy rains of even dew can hamper pollination moreso which can give poor mast crop in fall.
I did a thread called The Mighty Acorn, which I never finished which summarizes a multitude of studies going back 75 years on the subject if you want more info than a person probably needs. Pretty interesting stuff for the manager. I never got to the point of importance of fire and the acorn. This link might get you there, I'm not too good at this....

http://deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/the-mighty-acorn.1814/

Thank you.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[OkieKubota]

Short answer, technically reds drop part of their crop and hold part which will drop the next year. So they really can produce yearly but drop almost every year, but do to maturation success, tend to show better some years than others. Reds require about 17 months maturation after pollination while whites are less than 6 months. Whites have a smaller acorn, reds and chestnut oak are larger but with more tannin which prevents their immediate destuction by animals as opposed to whites which are edible from start. Whites do not require cold stratifiacation for growth as do red acorns that require an overwinter of cold in order to root. Whites tend to produce yearly even tho most mast trees run on a a 3 year cycle of heavy production. Freezes during pollination is usually blamed for poor mast production but in reality heavy rains of even dew can hamper pollination moreso which can give poor mast crop in fall.
I did a thread called The Mighty Acorn, which I never finished which summarizes a multitude of studies going back 75 years on the subject if you want more info than a person probably needs. Pretty interesting stuff for the manager. I never got to the point of importance of fire and the acorn. This link might get you there, I'm not too good at this....

http://deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/the-mighty-acorn.1814/

White oak acorns here are quite a bit larger than red oak acorns...

 

[Someday Isle]

White oak acorns here are quite a bit larger than red oak acorns...

Same here. Our white oaks in the Missouri Ozarks region are substantially larger than red oak acorns. My experience also is that white oak acorns are usually preferrred over red. I have no evidence other than personal experience and anecdotal eveidence on that however.

 

[SURGICAL GRADE]

Our white oaks in the Missouri Ozarks region are substantially larger than red oak acorns. My experience also is that white oak acorns are usually preferrred over red. I have no evidence other than personal experience and anecdotal eveidence on that however.

I have always thought that as well, but looking at the big picture, I don't know if that is necessarily true. Whites rot rather quickly and also begin to become far less palatable relatively quickly once they hit the ground, whereas reds have a much longer span of viability. So, it's probably reasonable to think that an animal will eat food source A, which expires rapidly, and save B, which they can "save for later."

It has long been assumed that varying levels of tannin cause one acorn to be preferred over the other, which very well may be true. But, it may also be equally true that, since the higher tannin= longer shelf life, they prioritize it differently.

The activity around certain reds where I am is crazy in late Fall/ early winter and it rivals the draw that white oaks have earlier on.

 

[dogghr]

^^^^ Good point. And as discussed in the above mentioned thread, squirrels will eat the less tanic part of a red oak acorn, leaving the more tannic portion, which still has ability to germinate once it goes thru cold stratification. And as you alluded, the white oak can begin germination immediately and often spend decades dying and resprouting beneath the soil until conditions are appropriate for growth. So in reality, a 50 yo white oak can be actually decades older in its actual beginnings. Really cool stuff for most habitat managers that have a love affair of deer and acorns. And with proper thot, management for oak species can be manipulated much better than just a simple size or age based logging operation. If you read enough studies one can see why timber management at times has contributed to some extent the demise of the white oak forests that once covered much of the eastern forests.