Any reason not to do this?

[Osceola]

I loosely follow the Paul Knox food plot program planting about half with a grain/clover/radish mix and half with a turnip/radish/rape brassica mix. I understand Paul's practice was to go back and frost seed clover into his brassica areas in late winter/early spring. In reading Ed Spinazzola's book, I see he recommends mixing brassicas and clover together and says the brassicas serve as a nurse crop to help the clover establish so it can come on strong in the spring. My understanding is this is exactly what the grains do in the grain mix, serve as a nurse crop for the clover. So why can't I just mix clover in with the brassicas in the fall like Spinazzola and eliminate the need to frost seed it later like Knox? Does it have to do with just getting more yield from the brassicas by planting it alone without clover?

 

[FarmerD]

I speculate, since you are from Michigan, that the brassica's will get 12" in diameter (or thereabouts) and shade out anything below, if you plant them heavy enough and possibly not get a good stand of clover. So come spring, when the brassica's have died off, you've got some bare spots, in which case you could frost seed. Brassicas also have an allelopathic effect, which limits germination of other plants (for a short time), after they have died off.

My suggestion, would be to try Ed's suggestion and see where you stand next spring and plan to frost seed if needed.

 

[OkieKubota]

I plant it all together as my own mix and always end up with an amazing clover patch in the spring. Grains, brassicas, and legumes all go into the spreader at the same time hand mixed.

 

[Osceola]

I speculate, since you are from Michigan, that the brassica's will get 12" in diameter (or thereabouts) and shade out anything below, if you plant them heavy enough and possibly not get a good stand of clover. So come spring, when the brassica's have died off, you've got some bare spots, in which case you could frost seed. Brassicas also have an allelopathic effect, which limits germination of other plants (for a short time), after they have died off.

My suggestion, would be to try Ed's suggestion and see where you stand next spring and plan to frost seed if needed.

This sounds good. Experimentation is half the fun!

 

[Osceola]

I plant it all together as my own mix and always end up with an amazing clover patch in the spring. Grains, brassicas, and legumes all go into the spreader at the same time hand mixed.

Do you mind sharing your recipe?

 

[dogghr]

I've done both ways with good success. But my opinion...brassica love N more than corn almost. And I prefer to plant them then in Nov overseed with a RC and grain which takes off quickly. but I'm a little further south than you. I don't want anything sucking up any N other than the brassica at the time of planting thru fall. Just my thots and my name is not on any book.

 

[OkieKubota]

WR, WW, BFO (new this year), daikon radishes, Barduro Red Clover...radishes never get real big here on top growth because the deer hit them from the time they start growing. They do get decent though...

 

[j-bird]

WR, WW, BFO (new this year), daikon radishes, Barduro Red Clover...radishes never get real big here on top growth because the deer hit them from the time they start growing. They do get decent though...

Okie - I planted a BOB type mix similar to that last fall and I was not aware of the value of the Barduro clover......come this spring was I impressed! It took over and the deer have hammered it ever since.

 

[THE LLC]

As mentioned, shade is the issue. I don't have that problem here as my deer keep the brassica grazed enough it doesn't shade clover out so I often seed clover with my brassicas.

 

[CTM1]

In 09 I did my first food plot, a small one next to the house. I did brassicas and clover. Come the spring and summer of 2010 it was a great clover plot and to this date the best one I ever had.

 

[X-farmerdan]

Not to put too fine a point on it, only one thing I can think of for staying with grains and clover. One is a grass. One is not. That makes it easy to terminate the grasses - the grains, releasing the clover at the right time. Clovers in brassicas - broadleaf plants mixed with broadleaf plants. Can't kill the brassicas without killing the clover.

 

[Jason Broom]

I've got a lot of respect for Ed Spinazzola, but have never been on board with using brassicas as a nurse crop for clover. A proper brassica mix, if it's successful, leaves NO room for clovers to even get started. Cereal grains are simply a much better choice to plant clover with in the Fall.

 

[Tap]

Not to put too fine a point on it, only one thing I can think of for staying with grains and clover. One is a grass. One is not. That makes it easy to terminate the grasses - the grains, releasing the clover at the right time. Clovers in brassicas - broadleaf plants mixed with broadleaf plants. Can't kill the brassicas without killing the clover.

Raptor/Clearcast or 24db hebicides?
They are safe on clover and should kill brassica if you would even need to. My deer do a good job of eliminating my brassica.

 

[Chainsaw]

I like fall planting rye with clover because of the side benefit of the five foot tall rye fawning cover the following June. Come about July 15 when the rye gets mowed the clover is normally filled in nicely and mostly weed free.
Also even if browsed to the ground the rye continues to grow on and off throughout the winter and it is the first green food for the deer each spring. Brassica with the clover on the other hand does neither of those two things.

Both the extra early spring rye availability and the fawning cover during June which helps hide the fawns from the coyotes here make rye a real asset for this property. It is always fall planted with clover and I plant one or usually more than one clover plot each fall.

 

[swat1018]

No need to worry about spray to kill brassica in Michigan, it will winter kill.

 

[Osceola]

I like fall planting rye with clover because of the side benefit of the five foot tall rye fawning cover the following June. Come about July 15 when the rye gets mowed the clover is normally filled in nicely and mostly weed free.
Also even if browsed to the ground the rye continues to grow on and off throughout the winter and it is the first green food for the deer each spring. Brassica with the clover on the other hand does neither of those two things.

Both the extra early spring rye availability and the fawning cover during June which helps hide the fawns from the coyotes here make rye a real asset for this property. It is always fall planted with clover and I plant one or usually more than one clover plot each fall.

Wondering if it's worth planting the brassicas at all. On the other hand, my deer absolutely tore up the ground all winter where I planted turnips and radish last year. There must be some winter carry-over benefit. Here's what it looked like come March:

 

[Mennoniteman]

Better make up your mind, you're getting late enough for brassicas in Michigan. Late turnips and radish will still get you some greens, but not as much bulb growth. A few handfuls of seed plant a big area, what have you got to lose? My five cents I say plant them separately.

 

[swat1018]

I have some awesome plots frost seeding clover into the bare dirt left after the deer destroy brassica.

 

[Jason Broom]

I wouldn't bother with brassicas this late, for one simple reason...a bare dirt plot all winter and into spring, followed by Lord know what, next year. Far better to get some winter rye broadcast into yellowing beans or on any bare ground you can see. It will germinate and provide "green stuff" during the most crucial periods for northern deer. The only real value brassicas provide during the cold months is if they have put on a lot of mass/bulbs, which won't happen if they are planted this late. Winter rye, if your soil is light and acidic, and maybe some winter wheat or triticale, if your soil is improved.

 

[Osceola]

I already planted brassicas July 21st, but they're not coming in good for some reason. Plenty of rain, not enough thatch to begin with perhaps. The ground was a little hard and dry when I broadcast.

I was thinking of over-seeding clovers and/or rye and it just got me to thinking why I wouldn't do that to begin with.