Kabic
Active Member
But what would they score!?
What percentage of your 3+ year olds return
- Thread starter Bullwinkle
- Start date
Bullwinkle
Active Member
We are doing this. 5 year olds are realistic every year. What’s not is 150” bucks. At 5+ they get on the hit list for sure. The blocky body is a dead give away. Some guys around me are letting 140-150” 5 year olds walk. Im not there yet. I’d shoot a 150” 3 year old to be honest
Don’t get me wrong guys we are very happy with what we have built. Just trying to improve
Sturgis told me I should be able to take 2-3 5+ year olds a year. We are pretty much there. Now I just need bigger racks
Don’t get me wrong guys we are very happy with what we have built. Just trying to improve
Sturgis told me I should be able to take 2-3 5+ year olds a year. We are pretty much there. Now I just need bigger racks
X-farmerdan
Well-Known Member
Agreed on the acreage. It was a simple model of reality. But here's my question....If we knew for certain our buck population was around the percentages I used above AND we decide to shoot no bucks (a simple assumption for sure) for one or two years, what does the age structure look like at the end of the cycle--at the end of one year; at the end of two? I would have to assume it's not a linear relationship. Are the percentages the same just in bigger quantities for each age group? And I guess we should assume we keep the buck - doe ratio the same. It gets complicated doesn't it? More than 640 acres, yes, but how much more until we commoners have a chance at achieving a reasonable improvement? Not to be a down dog, but I think most of us don't stand a chance....not meaning to take away the fun of trying!
All good questions. You will lose a certain % of your 3 yr+ bucks every year to natural mortality irrespective of what you do...10-15% especially in the 3-5 yr olds. Those are the ones fighting their way into the breeding pool or maintaining their dominance. Interestingly the natural mortality starts to drop off at 6 and older. Not sure anything in deer management is linear.Also as you get more bucks 4 and older the 3 yr olds actually do better as the older bucks are more dominant. The 3 yr olds will fight each other but don't do well against older bucks.
Bottom line is it takes years , a lot of discipline and cooperation to get a balanced age structure if ever it gets out of whack.
How much land does it take to be able to effectively manage a deer herd? It depends. Lots of variables such as ag in the neighborhood, eco structure, terrain etc. I can tell you that on our 2500 acres surrounded by interspersed ag and woodlots we struggled greatly to grow many 4 yr olds. There was a 100 acre lot a couple miles away that would shoot 15-20 bucks a year. That with other pressure all around us countered our best efforts. Within 3 yrs of fencing the property we had a solid population of 4 yr old or older bucks. Very enlightening.
Regarding your % in each age group I will use our ranch as the example and tell you we have probably 50% + from 4 -10 yrs old +. { I have one buck thats 15 this yr} That has a drastic effect on herd dynamics.
I would love to continue discussion, but the Saints lost , I'm tired and off to the ranch early tomorrow.
Bottom line is it takes years , a lot of discipline and cooperation to get a balanced age structure if ever it gets out of whack.
How much land does it take to be able to effectively manage a deer herd? It depends. Lots of variables such as ag in the neighborhood, eco structure, terrain etc. I can tell you that on our 2500 acres surrounded by interspersed ag and woodlots we struggled greatly to grow many 4 yr olds. There was a 100 acre lot a couple miles away that would shoot 15-20 bucks a year. That with other pressure all around us countered our best efforts. Within 3 yrs of fencing the property we had a solid population of 4 yr old or older bucks. Very enlightening.
Regarding your % in each age group I will use our ranch as the example and tell you we have probably 50% + from 4 -10 yrs old +. { I have one buck thats 15 this yr} That has a drastic effect on herd dynamics.
I would love to continue discussion, but the Saints lost , I'm tired and off to the ranch early tomorrow.
farmhunter
Well-Known Member
this is what happens to meYour bucks are killing themselves trying to breed all your does.
What does a 15 year old buck look like?
I saw him the other day but couldn't get video. Off to ranch now and I'll try again. If no luck I'll show you what he looked like at 14. Amazing really. He was a 170" 3 yr old. Now he's the biggest 5 pt ever...well he has a couple 1" brows.Prolly 27" main beams
Hoseman
Member
Yes, I am in Virginia and have a unique area where our farm is located with a high deer density. Hunt clubs control much of the area and my club hunts our farm within the block about three times a year and kills maybe 25 deer a year on the surrounding 2500 acres. All three clubs that hunt the general vicinity have antler restrictions so the 1.5 & 2.5 year olds do not get shot. Some of the 3.5 year olds are harvested but not very many. I would think that there may be 100 or more deer per square mile as there is huge amount of cutovers, swamps and ag land that provides optimal habitat. We see and get many pictures of young bucks and say "He'll be a good one next year" only to never see them again. By not shooting the 1.5 & 2.5 year olds, there are plenty of 3.5 year olds running around. To my knowledge, nobody in our immediate area shoots many of these deer so there has to be some other explanation. I do not believe hunters are killing enough of these bucks to make much of a difference. It is as if the 3.5 year olds are stacked up and then vanish the following year.
I think crop damage control and disease must be a larger factor than I realize and the surviving 4.5 and older deer become so nocturnal and reclusive and just don't make mistakes to allow us to see them. It is a mystery.
Gravel Road
Well-Known Member
In your other thread I think I put 25-40% for me, but it probably averages closer to 25% over time. Three that would be shooters this year disappeared and I know they made it through spring since the sheds were found. One 3.5 disappeared for a year and showed back up this year as a 5.5, so you never know. Poachers probably take a role in it too, especially if the bucks move to different ground in other seasons.
j-bird
Well-Known Member
I have a hard enough time seeing/shooting deer i have on trail cams.....much less worrying about if the 3 year old I passed will be seen again! I figure if I pass a 3 year old the odds of me seeing him again are ZERO. I still let him go as I have seen some 4's and maybe a 5 on my place before...but I never had them on cam and I sure don;t know where they came from! I just know i shoot them when I get the opportunity!
rusty1034
Active Member
I'm in northern NY, St Lawrence county. That section of the state has a 44 day firearms season, including all of November. In addition there are two weeks of muzzle loader season and few weeks of bow season. People can legally shoot three bucks annually. There are no antler restrictions in place.
I run 4 cameras on 400 acres. I've never had a picture of what I would consider to be a 3 1/2 yr old. In nearly 40 years of hunting this land, I've only seen 2-3 bucks taken that I believe would be 3 1/2 or older. With all of the untethered harvest regulations, very few bucks make it past 2 1/2.
For those of you that have mature deer, I envy you.
With that being said, does anyone have a good recipe for Tag Soup ?
Rusty
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I run 4 cameras on 400 acres. I've never had a picture of what I would consider to be a 3 1/2 yr old. In nearly 40 years of hunting this land, I've only seen 2-3 bucks taken that I believe would be 3 1/2 or older. With all of the untethered harvest regulations, very few bucks make it past 2 1/2.
For those of you that have mature deer, I envy you.
With that being said, does anyone have a good recipe for Tag Soup ?
Rusty
Sent from my iPhone using Deer Hunter Forum
Chipdasqrrl
Active Member
I like to believe that my local herd makes it through the winter pretty well. They go into winter looking pretty fat and they look fine going into spring. In fact I walk the property a lot in late winter and have only ever found 1 dead deer.
But to answer your question, my 3 year olds don’t seem to make it to December. They either vanish into thin air or get shot. That being said, it seems like every 2 1/2 year old shows up the next season.
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But to answer your question, my 3 year olds don’t seem to make it to December. They either vanish into thin air or get shot. That being said, it seems like every 2 1/2 year old shows up the next season.
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rusty1034
Active Member
A correction to my post. Hunters are only allowed to legally harvest two bucks annually in the area I hunt.
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Pacahunter
Member
Got super aggressive today. Last day of the doe only firearm season.
I did some little pushes for my wife. On the last push I must have nudged the deer just enough to get them moving. 6 bucks walked right past her. All together. One was a very long tined no doubter, 4 yearlings, and a very nice likely 8 pt.
Very interesting how they were just walking. I think they heard me, which got them on their feet.
I did some little pushes for my wife. On the last push I must have nudged the deer just enough to get them moving. 6 bucks walked right past her. All together. One was a very long tined no doubter, 4 yearlings, and a very nice likely 8 pt.
Very interesting how they were just walking. I think they heard me, which got them on their feet.
Bullwinkle
Active Member
Nice. Calm deer, great sign.
MattJK
Member
There's no shortage of threads where we discuss how sensitive to pressure mature bucks can be. Wether we pressure them, or our neighbors do, the mature deer do tend to move around and also are hard to spot if they are in the area. Heck, even roadside gawkers pay more attention to mature deer. So, I'd say the older deer are reacting to pressure. Just not my pressure of course, because I hunt like a ninja ghost! LOL
badgerfowl
Well-Known Member
Bout tree fiddy.
bull. I am in Outagamie county and I am experiencing the same as you. My 3 1/2's are not coming back. I found one dead in my swamp in March that someone cut his rack off. I also had a great buck that got shot by the coyote hunters which was a big news story in the Shiocton area. Now this last year we had another nice buck taken by a poacher. I am convinced that there is some cabin shootings going on as well. They just will not leave the big bucks alone. They are shinning them all the time and as soon as the neighborhood spots a big one the news travels. I know of one guy in your county that was shooting them out the truck with a crossbow. I don't think the wardens sleep on their truck hoods at night anymore much less run around at night trying to catch some of these guys. I think it is a real problem.
Chipdasqrrl
Active Member
Huge fines in Michigan for poaching bucks. $2000 + $500 per tine if 8-10 point. $750 per tine if it has 11 or more. $11,000 for a 12 point + jail time and license revoked. Seems to work
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swat1018
Well-Known Member
Consider yourself fortunate. Misdemeanor court costs, under $200, and a $500 replacement cost, if the Judge assesses it, in Indiana.
