Video - Dog Hunting for Deer in N Florida

Discussion in 'Deer Hunting' started by EBOutdoors, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. SwampCat

    SwampCat Active Member

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    Location:
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    It is a dying sport. I love to hear a good dog race. Shrinking hunting properties and the ever present quest to grow trophy deer has spelled the death of dog hunters. A lot of non-dog hunters have no idea of the dedication and knowledge of the area that is required to successfully kill deer using dogs. Most are not killed ahead of the dog - but sneaking away or sneaking back in as soon as the dogs pass.

    Enjoy your bit of history while it lasts.;)
     
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  2. Drycreek

    Drycreek Well-Known Member

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    The only issues I ever had with running deer with dogs is the tendency of some guys to take "Hail Mary" shots that resulted in wounded deer that weren't recovered, and the safety aspects of shooting through the woods with a background that changes by the second. You can say the same about deer drives though and that tradition is still practiced in lots of states.

    Anybody here ever hunted rabbits behind a pack of beagles ? About the same except the target is bigger. I've always subscribed to the notion that a deer doesn't much care how he's killed, it's us humans that make that distinction.
     
  3. dogghr

    dogghr Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a big difference is me and the other hunters are not driving around the field in our trucks while talking with radios while tracking the dogs with their collars while some dude stands on cab of his truck to shoot a rabbit that has been headed off by a vehicle driving considerable faster than a rabbit can run. At least bear and coon hunters get out of their truck and climb the mountains where the dogs have bayed their prey. I think there is a difference but what do I know.
     
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  4. Native Hunter

    Native Hunter Well-Known Member

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    By deer drives, I assume that you mean people driving deer to other people.

    I see a lot of difference in dogging and a deer drive. You could conduct a deer drive on a very small piece of property without having to trespass on the next property. The hunters could choose to make sure they stay on their side of the property line. You can't do that with dogs.

    As for rabbits and beagles - yes, except that you can rabbit hunt on a smaller property without trespassing on another property. I've already said that if no trespassing is going on and everything is legal - I'm fine with it.

    The issue is not how the deer is being hunted. The issue is trespassing and property rights.... However, I agree with dogghr and cringe thinking about the trucks, radios, etc.... I can tell you that it isn't for me, and I would quit hunting altogether if that was my only choice in hunting.
     
  5. Drycreek

    Drycreek Well-Known Member

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    When I was around dogs running deer, it was in a National Forest and tracking collars hadn't been conceived yet, much less invented. It goes without saying, or should, that I don't condone anyone tresspassing on someone's place no matter what kind of hunting they are involved in.
    Again, I would never condone tresspassing no matter the reason. If you will go back and read my post, you'll see that my comparison to drive hunting was the shooting at running deer and the safety of shooting at said target not being aware of who might be behind it. I've personally seen that happen on the one hunt that I was on in Kansas where the outfitter had us "pushing"deer in the middle of the day. This was with rifles, much less safe IMO than the shotguns and buckshot used by the only dog hunters I was around. Needless to say, that is not something I'll do again. I was more concerned about my safety than I was about killing a deer.
     
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  6. dogghr

    dogghr Well-Known Member

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    I was going to respond back but the ad for ladies bikinis on the page made me forget what I was going to say!!:) Enjoy the hunts. To each their own.
     
  7. Hoseman

    Hoseman Member

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    I live and hunt in the most prolific deer hound hunting area in the country in SE VA. The hunting atmosphere in our area would be very foreign to most members here as 90% or more of the gun hunting is done with hounds. We have a 6 week archery season followed by a 6 week firearms season where most people are members of large clubs that control the vast majority of the land both private and leased company land. The clubs have thousands of continuous acres and we have very few problems. We usually hunt blocks that are 1-3 thousand acres at a time and members draw stands in the woods, swamps, cutovers or fields and the standers are spread out for safety. We have one hunt in the morning and one hunt in the evening and do not truck hunt. When a dog leaves the area they usually do not leave our land but if they do it is on to an adjoining hunt clubs land and we catch their dogs and they catch ours if need be. GPS collars have helped immensely.

    I also bow hunt and still hunt during the seasons quite a bit and enjoy all methods. I often hear people say they would not enjoy hunting deer with dogs but I have never taken a guest who hasn't tried it before and he not beg me to take him again after witnessing it for himself firsthand. If hound hunting was banned in our area, half of the deer hunters would never buy a license again. It is part of the community and the way things have been done here for generations. It is exciting and the social portion of the hunt is a big part of it as well.

    The problems are happening in areas which are not as rural as our area or areas where it was very rural twenty years ago but there is more development recently. These once large tracts have been subdivided and the clubs do not have control of big, continuous chunks of land. And then there are outlaws that turn out dogs on 50 or 100 acres knowing full well their dogs will be on someone else's property ten minutes after releasing them. All of this is causing friction and understandably so. I do not have a solution but am sure there are regulations of some sort coming in the future. One thing that may help would be minimum acreage requirements. Common sense and respect are not a given in today's society as a whole and unfortunately it applies to the hunting community as well.
     
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  8. catscratch

    catscratch Well-Known Member

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    All for different styles of hunting; drives, dogs, stalking, stands, food plots, ag, rut, funnels, etc. I did tons of drives when I was a kid (always the pusher with a dog and a quail gun). It was a blast! I would try a dog hunt for deer in a heartbeat. I might or might not like it... won't know until I go.

    I'm all for all of it. The thing that concerns me is what everyone else has already hit on... trespassing. Dog hunters in general have a reputation of not recognizing boundary lines for their own sake. Coon hunters that run creeks all night, coyote hunters that drive back roads all over the county, etc. Not saying they all do it, it's just the reputation that has developed for whatever reason.

    I like your video. It looks like a neat experience.
     
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  9. pinetag

    pinetag Active Member

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    I agree with your sentiments Hoseman. As a native Virginian, I grew up dog hunting and did not start bow hunting/ML hunting until I was in college, where a buddy introduced me to those methods. I have since transitioned to where I almost exclusively stand hunt because that is my enjoyment and has been part of my hunting progression. I think every hunter goes through some sort of progression in their life. Now that I am in the process of purchasing land, stand hunting will be all i do. This past season was the first year where I was not a member of a hunt club that ran dogs during gun season. I was ok with that.

    I think I am one of the few in the middle on this issue because I can see both sides of the argument. The honest hound hunters simply want to retrieve their dogs and get back to hunting whereas stand hunters don't want their hunts interrupted by a hunting style that was forced upon them (especially when it's not legal to run in that season). Don't get me wrong, there are the guys who use "right to retrieve" as an excuse to hunt/trespass on another's property but I think overall this is a small %. Unfortunately, all it takes is that small percentage to give the perception that all hound hunters trespass or retrieve unethically. How does the saying go..."Perception is reality"?

    I think there needs to be some sort of compromise because the issue is going to get worse as the large tracts of land that used to exist get subdivided and you have more individual landowners. It's simple math. More landowners = more opportunity for conflict. If some regulations can be put in place to make these incidents fewer, then I'm all for it. A contiguous acre minimum is probably a good start to helping resolve some of these conflicts!

    I don't want to see hound hunting eliminated because it is a fun method and can be very effective and safe if done correctly. I have some great memories with my dad and grandfather of hunts where the dogs were coming our way and my heart was pounding! Me and my dad celebrating my first successful hunt as a young kid! Time spent socializing after the day's end playing cards in the clubhouse and telling stories! Maybe an "occasional" drink? There is an enjoyable social aspect to it for sure.

    I believe your last statement sums up the problem. Courtesy, politeness, and common sense would go a long way in solving this issue.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  10. Eric

    Eric New Member

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    Location:
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    As someone who grew up deer hunting with dogs in SE Va and has now transitioned to still hunting with bow, muzzleloader and guns, I feel like Pinetag and Hoseman, I have a similar take on this issue. I am sympathetic toward dog hunters however, the technology and practices used by those groups have created this conflict and they refused to reasonably address them. First of all, most dog hunters speak of the tradition, social aspects, comraderie, excitement of dog hunting. All of those aspects are also part of still hunting - they are not unique to just dog hunting. Anyone who has hunted in areas where dog hunting is NOT allowed will talk about the same things that they cherish as well. The "hunt" is almost secondary anywhere you have hunters. So if dog hunting went away, those aspects would not go away. Also, the technology now with tracking collars, GPS collars, bark collars that tell you which dogs are actually chasing deer, handheld radios, etc etc. fail to meet the definition of "FAIR CHASE" in my opinion. I believe state agencies and legislators will address these issues soon because they give an unfair advantage to "hunters." Also, there is a safety issue with dog hunting with guns - especially with buckshot here in SE VA. If you look at the hunting accidents each year in Va, the majority of gun related accidents involve dog hunters. The only other accident that comes close to having the poor safety record of dog hunters are hunters who do not use safety harnesses when treestand hunting. I would like to also address the right to retrieve laws in Va, some dog hunters obey the laws and follow them as written - no guns, must cross the property on foot. However it only takes one member of a hunt club to carry his gun or to drive through someones farm lot to forever ruin that trust. And that has already happened in many places and that trust wont be rebuilt overnight. Also, one issue that many people don't understand is that if a hunter kills a deer and it runs across the property line, (s)he cannot go retrieve it without permission, however that dog hunter can go get his dog without permission. That promotes trespassing and wasteful hunting. Another issue I would like to address is the health of the deer herd with dog hunting. Many hunters across the nation have issues with EHD. If you run deer with EHD you have essentially killed that deer without ever firing a shot. When a deer is infected with EHD, it has a fever that is deadly most of the time. If that deer is run by dogs, then the mortality rate greatly increases. Many dog clubs choose to not shoot deer when they know they have a EHD outbreak, but too late, the damage is done. Also, the wounding rate of deer with buckshot is tremdous. Unfortunately it is not calculable. Most deer hunters do not know at what distance to humanely shoot deer with buckshot (or in the case of this video rifles -300yds!!!) and most cannot judge that distance in a split moment when a deer pops out running. Therefore many deer are shot, wounded, run for upward of a couple miles, lay down in the water (usually) and die some days later. So why I may be sympathetic to dog hunters because I killed my first 30+ deer that way, it is not a humane way to hunt and the conflicts with landowners and other hunters outwieghs any likely solution. My honest opinion is that the end of an era is coming soon.
     
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  11. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    All hunting styles are fully humane if good common sense and respect for the quarry are present. Not having been on any dog hunts in recent years since the advent of all of the so-called technological improvements, I'm really not in position to judge whether the new era dog hunts are less fair chase than those of yesteryear. I can tell you though that without a doubt a good single still-hunter in the day normally killed more deer than 6 guys driving deer or dog hunting deer day in and day out. Does that mean that because the single still-hunter was able to kill more deer than an average group of dog hunters that the still hunter was not fair chase? I don't really think that hunting deer with dogs is not fair chase; Once the hunt is on, when those deer know that they are being pursued they really show their stuff. Sure a lot get taken on those hunts but many more likely make fools of the pursuers.

    However I do not disagree that the lack of safety being referred to is exaggerated. Moving "standers" is not a safe practice for sure.

    The issue of trespassing of course is completely unacceptable. Even one time is too many. For that reason I too see the dog hunting as a fading deal that will continue to get smaller and smaller at least here. Here we do not have deer hunting with dogs that I am aware of; we do however have coyote hunting with dogs. There simply is no way to contain the dogs on a single property and more and more people do not accept the intrusion as most used to. The coyote hunters use tactics similar to the video on deer chasing; They do kill a lot of coyotes but I certainly would not call it not fair chase. The coyotes win quite often and most of the coyote hunter groups here are a great group of ethical sportsmen. However that is not the issue; trespassing is.
     
  12. Gator

    Gator Active Member

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    Only reason deer go nocturnal after the rut is because of the hounds constantly chasing them. Nothing better than a late season hunt on unpressured bucks coming to food.
     
  13. Gator

    Gator Active Member

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    I know here in Virginia that every single year there's an "accidental shooting" from guys running dogs. Every single year! Mix in an occasional house, car even horse last year. Yeah I want yahoos running around my house shooting at running deer with no idea of what is beyond that deer!
     
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  14. E_308

    E_308 Active Member

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    Location:
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    I have always though it would be an interesting hunt. Reading the old stuff by Roosevelt and others makes it sound fun. That said with limited large tracks I am glad it is not legal in my state. The coyote hunters already think they (and their dogs) have a free pass.
     

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