Never tried trophy rock or any of the other products like that. I just use the white salt blocks, and then usually put 50 pound bag of loose red mineral on and around the salt block. It seems like it gets hit mostly In the spring and early summer but I usually don't have cameras out yet.
Trophy rock versus mineral block- has anyone tested for preference ?
- Thread starter Tenured Student
- Start date
TR contains lower levels of minerals than livestock trace mineral salt and those minerals are well balanced compared to natural sources of soil minerals.....so with TR, deer don't have to over consume a bunch of elements to get the right amount of the one they need. The concept is called 'nutritional wisdom' which is feed back the animal gets from it's gut to it's brain to guide dietary selections and intake. It is impossible for the animal to apply nutritional wisdom when the mix of elements are imbalanced (too high in one or more elements) and the only thing on offer.....that can make animal behavior (consumption) very erratic. When taste and feedback are normal then intake will be normal.
That may sound complicated but think of it this way....most folks can tolerate drinking 1 or 2 Coca-colas per day....but very few could tolerate a daily shot glass of the concentrated syrup used to make that Coca-cola. Your first instinct of a 'flat' Coke is to what?....dump it down the drain because the taste is a bit strong and non-normal! For Coca-Cola to taste correct it must be diluted correctly and have that 'fizz'...that is the 'nutritional wisdom' humans have for a Coca-Cola...a learned normal taste since childhood!
Generic livestock minerals are notorious for having excesses of certain minerals and deficits of others (many reasons for that besides science and cost). You can see this in the cow behavior....when the mix is missing just one thing the cow needs and that mineral mix is palatable, the herd will go through very high rates of mineral daily regardless of distance from water....and over consumption of some elements in there can make a deficiency even worse...so they keep eating more. This can be so severe that salt or palatability inhibitors are needed to control intake of the mineral. When the mix is fairly well balanced, mineral intake will be within a normal rate and intake can be changed by varying distance from water. When the pasture contains proper plant diversity and growing conditions normal, then the herd may use very little if any mineral.
Ever notice some companies recommend placing deer salt/mineral close to water? Why is that? To increase mineral intake and mineral sales! Trust me....animals will use their legs to go about the landscape to find a mineral source if truly needed....without the allure or need of surface water. That is also a moot point for deer since most of the water they get comes from the plants consumed and trying to regulate mineral intake of deer is moot given the diversity of plants they consume. In most landscapes deer have evolved to get needed minerals from a large selection of plants.....not by seeking actual mineral rich soil or mineral rich rock.
catscratch
Well-Known Member
Love the coke anology.
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Thanks for the answer Doug. If I can remember I will go look at the bags I mix and post here. The animals hit it but don't kill it like the responses here for trophy rock. My brother has a trophy rock by one of his feeders at our club that ends up smaller each time he goes and in a different location.
Hell I will never remember and since I am sitting on my lazy but reading this when I have stuff to do, I went out there and looked. Here is what I have and mix:
2 parts- Champions Choice trace mineral salt
2 parts- Champions Choice mix-n-fine salt
1 part- PCS 18.5% dicalcium phosphate
All items purchased at my local feed and seed.
2 parts- Champions Choice trace mineral salt
2 parts- Champions Choice mix-n-fine salt
1 part- PCS 18.5% dicalcium phosphate
All items purchased at my local feed and seed.
Blended minerals are based on phosphorous content. Yours would be a 4% mineral....18.5 / 5 = 3.7 or ~4%. Such a blend is used for soils testing medium in P content with forages moderate in P levels. There are 2,4,6 and 8% mineral mixes available commercially. The lower %s are generally more palatable than the high %s....since dical is not a very palatable salt.
For cattle mineral, I have P tested in forage samples of those few perennial forages (or annuals) mainly used throughout the year, then decide on the mineral mix to offer. Livestock under conventional tame pasture management have little plant diversity to select and meet thier mineral needs....pasture fertility levels also vary widely.....thus 2,4,6 and 8% mineral supplements are sold commercially to meet regional or national needs.
For free range deer, mineral mix P content is irrelevant because of the many forages deer use and low use rate of each plant in general (no basal diet of 1 or 2 plant species...instead tens to hundreds of plants combined). Some of those preferred forbs and woody species are 'P accumulators'. Marcus Lashley did a deer study showing this....in one of the Carolinas...the article is published. Deer essentially selected for and preferentially used P accumulating plants during times of high P demand (peak lactation/antler growth and late summer/fall realimentation).
Tommy...ground and rock are the same thing.....(ie the rock and 465)....465 is a very coarse grind. Redmund also offers a #10 fine grind for stock salt or a #4 coarse grind for stock salt or land application. Ground forms essentially melt into the soil unless offered in some type of feeder protected from water. 465 doesn't last any time at all...compared to the rock.....and the 44 lb blocks outlast both.
No....use the same if you are happy....or use just TM mix and salt if cost is an issue. A 0,2, or 4 % mineral isn't too concerning. Deer will figure out how to use the mineral....they already know the plants they need.
Just focus on increasing forb abundance in native lands...small clearings as example...all will be good in time. Common ragweed, for ex, is an important and very palatable P accumulating plant to have around the farm in summer....I consistently see more deer and cattle use of common ragweed than the other 3 ragweed types (lance-leaf, western and giant) over the whole growing season.
Tenured Student
Active Member
Thanks everyone for the information.
I am getting ready to do the taste test... I have deer already hitting plain old "trace" mineral blocks but I guess I will let go of a few bucks and buy a "trophy rock" and place it within 50 yards of this mineral block and see which they prefer...
TSC blocks don't have the natural balance of TR.....which means some elements consumed will be in excess in TSC block and interact/interfere with others. Fe for example will be in excess in TSC block.....unless one has high pH high Ca soils which suppress plant Fe uptake then Fe supplement isn't needed. IF one supplies excess Fe in mineral supplement on acidic soils, then Zn and Cu status of the animal can be depressed.....Zn and Cu are critical for innate immunity and general animal health. This is a new site I found which makes it easier to understand the element interaction wheel. http://www.traceelements.com/wheelindex.aspx
http://www.traceelements.com/docs/Iron Wheels.pdf
IF one is doing a preference test, set the mineral sources side by side in same spot a few feet apart within frame and same distance from camera (about 3-4' apart at 15-18' from camera lens). Choose the same areas where deer have been long term acclimated to using mineral. 50 yards apart confounds results in both time and space. Repeat on several sites around farm. Allow 7-14 days for deer adaptation to the new object, then begin survey. Set time-out period of camera to 1 minute with 10 sec delay between 3 captures to monitor as much deer use as possible. Some areas are experiencing acorn drop....deer seem to reduce salt intake during acorn drop....why I don't know....perhaps acorns have sufficient Na or Cl content.
TS, many summer forbs are pollinating now and that decreases forb use by the animal due to eye/nose irritation high pollen counts. Advancing plant maturity reduces forb nutritional value by the day. Clip some forb areas high with brush hog or graze at sufficient animal density so forb regrowth will be available late in the growing season. The mower must leave the forbs partially clipped for regrowth to occur for animal use. Some regrowth will be in wheel tracks which have rolled forbs down leaving them unclipped.
Summer forbs are a critical source of minerals for the grazing/browsing animal. The deep taproots will bring many minerals from subsoil to the topsoil and make some 'generally unavailable minerals' more available to the animal. Common ragweed for example on unamended poor soil can have a phosphorous content of 0.45%....which is almost twice as high as clovers!
This 85 d rest pasture was high clipped last week. Many forbs are available (80% field coverage) but getting to much age for high animal value. Lance-leaf ragweed and cockle-bur were pollinating….annual broom weed and wooly croton starting to bloom. Those 3 are low preference forbs and in higher abundance than desired They are at a stage where significant regrowth after mowing is unlikely. Pollen of lance-leaf ragweed covered the tractor and everything else. Common ragweed (early flowering) and two types of old field aster (early flowering) which are high preference forbs will have new regrowth until frost and something we want to maintain/promote. Mowing released grasses, striate lespedeza, late germinating common ragweed, and some ladino. The area will be overseeded with a mix of ryegrass/fescue/vetch/ladino/turnip/radish/chicory ahead of cow herd within a month to keep forb density in check and promote new diversity in the next few years. ALL NWSG were left standing to promote seed dispersion. A green brier laden area mowed back in March was left alone....it has forb diversity differing from rest of field and provides 'structure' one needs in pasture. My point.....when native forage begins to get stale for the animal, then reset the clock with timely regenerative management!
