Throw N Mow thread...

Discussion in 'Food Plots for Wildlife' started by OkieKubota, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. Turkish

    Turkish Active Member

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    Has anyone specifically dealt with TnM in thick foxtail thatch? Any specific techniques I should be prepared for?
     
  2. KSQ2

    KSQ2 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Did tnm for my dad and my father-in-law this year. They both had foxtail in their plots, it didn’t hurt their germination at all, but we had sprayed the plots 3 weeks before broadcasting. Actually neither of them mowed their plots, we just threw without mowing. I’m beginning to really like this throwing stuff!!
     
  3. catscratch

    catscratch Well-Known Member

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    I stated earlier in the thread that I liked to throw into standing thatch and let it fall over onto the seed on it's own. I sprayed this yr and hit a hot spell so my thatch (heavy grass and foxtail) laid over before I could spread my seed. When rain finally hit the forecast I broadcast and as feared lots of the seed sat on top. I ran over it with the mower and even though I kept the blade mostly above the thatch and the seed shook down like I hoped. A week later I had great germination and growth of all cereals and broadleafs.

    I had to adapt but it still turned out well. [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

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  4. Deadeye

    Deadeye Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Central Florida with Hunting Lease in NW Florida
    Hardiness Zone:
    8-10
    I tried it this year as well. I had a decent Cloverfield started but between Spring Turkey and August it got taken over by Dog Fennel. I mean over your head high stuff. Funny part was there was just some junk grass and no DF in that plot before I disced it and seeded last year.
    I really wonder if Discing it just brought the DF Seeds to the surface where they took off.

    Anyway this year I mowed it down and then spread seed. Unfortunately we had a Drought in that area all summer and nothing is growing weli. I plan to go back up in 2 weeks and re-mow what has grown and then let it be for the rest of the year.

    I'm thinking T&M might be the best way to do these plots with unknown seed in them.
     
  5. TX-Aggie

    TX-Aggie Member

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    Location:
    Texas, Property in Southwest Missouri
    We got our throw and mow plots in back on Labor Day, using weed eaters for the “mowing”. After we finished, I drove over it with the riding mower (uncle’s riding mower and he thought the summer growth was too thick, so we used weed eaters to knock it down), then we spread some fine-screened compost over the top.

    Mix was Oats, Barley, Rye, Triticale, Turnips, Radish, Winter Peas, Chicory, Balansa Clover, Crimson Clover, Berseem Clover, and Medium Red Clover

    IMG_7712.JPG IMG_7714.JPG

    My father will be going to the property in two weeks, so I’ll get to see the progress. We went 10 days without rain after planting, so we’ll see - thatch was thick, but we have turkeys. Fingers crossed.

    For fun, I did some “throw and mow” planters in my suburb backyard. My beagles like to eat from these planters.

    IMG_7913.JPG
    IMG_7914.JPG

    By the way, this little guy was in one of our Missouri plots, and struck at a weed eater head. He gone!

    IMG_7715.JPG


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  6. MarkDarvin

    MarkDarvin Well-Known Member

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    Not picking on you here Deadeye, but this got me to wondering...

    How do weed seeds ever get below the soil surface to ever be brought back up at a later time? What feat of physics makes this happen in nature? Short answer is, it doesn't happen that way.

    When machines of destruction (sprayer, disk, plow, etc) roll across the ground, lots of chemical signals are sent. Primary plants die, oxygen is injected into the system, micro organisms shift from fungal to bacterial, and so on. Every single event sends a chemical signal and weed seeds that had been dormant for years or decades get their signal from these events to activate, and they do. Those weed seeds persist precisely for this purpose, to recolonize the soil after disturbance.

    The takeaway is that we create our weed problems when we create holes in the economy. Plug the hole quickly (better yet, don't make one if you don't have to), or nature will do it for you.
     
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  7. MarkDarvin

    MarkDarvin Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and get barley into your rotation.
     
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  8. Deadeye

    Deadeye Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Hardiness Zone:
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    Hey No Offense taken.

    I know that on my Lawn I used my Disc to just run across it and break up the Thatch some, not disc it really just cut some "lines" in it. What a difference it made. My Lawn grew like it hasn't for years and was much thicker and lush as well.

    Back to the Woods, I'd say your right the seeds were laying there Dorment just waiting for the Word to Wake-Up and start to germinate. I guess the term Discing them Up isn't correct, but often that does seem to be the case that once the soil is disturbed from what it was, all the seeds that were there but never took (for whatever reason) get their chance to do their thing and do.
     
  9. MarkDarvin

    MarkDarvin Well-Known Member

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    I can’t take credit for that knowledge. My roommate is studying biological chemistry and has been all over the topic of exudate stimulation and resistant germination in native plants. Fascinating subject.


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  10. Chipdasqrrl

    Chipdasqrrl Active Member

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    Location:
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    Hardiness Zone:
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    Got anything else like that to share?
     
  11. MarkDarvin

    MarkDarvin Well-Known Member

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    He's trying to teach me. So far it's made him dangerous enough to try things, but not an authority on the matter. One idea he had was to rake up a few bags of pine needles and spread them around the spruces to try to stifle the grass. There's a decent dose of allelochemicals in fresh pine needles.
     
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  12. catscratch

    catscratch Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Kansas It's better to wear out than to rust out.
    Your roommate sounds kind of cool, but the smart ones can be kind catty. I wouldn't drop my gard if I was you!

    I dug around my Throw-n-Mow last night a little. That huge and thick mat of thatch is integrating in very well. This combined with tons of mole and armadillo sign (both are warm eaters) indicate active and healthy soil. Also have a lot of above ground inverts showing activity, including both predator and prey species. Things are going very well.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

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  13. MarkDarvin

    MarkDarvin Well-Known Member

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    Is that moss, in Kansas? AOC was right, something needs to be done!
     
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  14. catscratch

    catscratch Well-Known Member

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    Most of our moss grows in ponds but heavy thatch, a rain, and cooler temps that creats nightly dew can get some growing. Good eye by the way!

    Speaking of moss in ponds. This evening was spent popping rubber frogs through it.[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

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  15. Crimson n' Camo

    Crimson n' Camo Active Member

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    Location:
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    I believe there is some kind of symbiotic relationship going on between clover and dog fennel but I don't have it all figured out just yet. I have extremely sandy soil that's hard to grow clover in. The areas where I typically see clover thrive the most though is often at the base of dog fennel plants. The clover is gaining shade and maybe moisture from the dog fennel and I believe in return the dog fennel is getting nitrogen. We're in a sever drought right now here in the south. Everything is suffering and dying but the dog fennel is the one thing that seems unaffected. It either lives off of very little moisture or its sending roots WAY down to find it.
     
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  16. Deadeye

    Deadeye Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Yeah that's the worst part about trying to figure it out this year- the lack of water.

    Is it just not growing or is it just not getting any water? Hard to tell this year but I'm betting the water is playing a part.
     
  17. Chipdasqrrl

    Chipdasqrrl Active Member

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    Could be Nitrogen being transported directly to the dog fennel through connected mycorrhizal networks. The dog fennel could send the clover what it needs to supply the nitrogen fixing bacteria. Nitrogen fixation is a pretty costly process and all 4 parties involved (Clover, dog fennel, mycorrhizae, bacteria) would benefit by this partnership


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  18. Chipdasqrrl

    Chipdasqrrl Active Member

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    To add to that theory, if mycorrhizae are mediating this partnership, your observations should only be seen in a throw & mow plot. Tillage destroys mycorrhizae populations so if my theory is correct there would only be this mutualistic relationship in areas that aren’t tilled


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  19. MarkDarvin

    MarkDarvin Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! Mycorrhizae networks also move water up from deep in the soil profile. It's the magic that delivers resilience when the extremes in weather happen.
     
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  20. lakngolf

    lakngolf Well-Known Member

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    Huh? Yall are above my pay grade!
     

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