The Year of The Oaks

[Native Hunter]

Over the last few years, you guys have seen me post a lot about persimmons, apples, pears and chestnuts. I still love all those trees, but this year I’m turning my attention to the oak trees that I set out 15-17 years ago.

The original planting was done in 2004, but we had a severe drought that year, and I did replacements over the next two years on trees that died. So in the spring of 2021, these trees will range from 15 to 17 years in the ground. The area planted is flat upland loam with good moisture but not swampy.

I set around 12 acres in trees. The rows were planted 13 feet apart to facilitate mowing for the first few years and the trees were set 7 feet apart within each row. This is too close, but some will die, and you can always thin later if necessary.

I was told that these trees came from MDC, but I’m really unsure about that. I bought them second hand from a guy who was doing a lot of CRP plantings, and he dealt with several different tree vendors. What I’ve found is that I ended up with several more varieties than I was supposed to have, which I feel is a good thing because it makes the planting more diverse. All oaks don’t bloom at the same time, and the more species you have, the better chance in any given year of getting acorns if a late spring freeze hits.

Up to this point, I have paid very little attention to these trees other than cutting and stump treating volunteer competition that popped up. This has mainly been sweet gums, but I have also cut some other species.

This thread is to provide identification keys and information about several different oaks that I found in the planting. We will look at pictures and have discussions about the different species. I hope to post a different oak every week or two weeks for us to discuss. I encourage everyone interested to participate in the discussions and share your information.

Below is a list of Oaks I have already identified in the planting, and we might find some more species as I look closer this year:

White Oak - Quercus alba
Swamp White Oak - Quercus bicolor
Swamp Chestnut Oak - Quercus michauxii
Chinkapin Oak - Quercus muehlenbergii
Post Oak - Quercus stellata
Bur Oak - Quercus macrocarpa
Overcup Oak - Quercus lyrata
Cherry Bark Oak - Quercus pagoda
Northern Red Oak - Quercus rubra
Pin Oak - Quercus palustris
Black Oak - Quercus velutina
Sawtooth Oak – Quercus acutissima (added a few years later)

I’m going to start this thread by identifying and providing information on an oak that I’m very happy to see doing well. Below you will see Swamp Chestnut Oak - Quercus michauxii. I recall setting these as replacement trees two years after the initial planting, so they have been growing 15 years. I haven’t counted them, but I know that there are well over 60 or more thriving in the planting.

Facts about this oak:

· A member of the white oak family.

· Highly prized whitetail acorn of a large size with low tannin. Some reports say that humans can eat them without leaching.

· Bottomland species but growing well on my damp upland site. I estimate most trees are 30+ feet tall after 15 years.

· Leaves resemble regular Chestnut Oak, but bark is very different. Acorns and caps also look very different.

· I know that I have been getting acorns, because I’ve found some young seedlings nearby. That made me happy.

Some pics of leaves, bark and form:









That’s it for now. I will post another oak in a few days and feel free to ask questions or make comment in the meantime.

 

[jteeen]

I love the oaks. Bur is my favorite since its nearly indestructible. I don't have enough land for it though. Shumard is a close second on the red side.

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[KSQ2]

I really like the looks of that tree! We have a few low, wet areas on the Massey, I might get a few of those in the future for those spots. This year we are trying some sawtooths in one of those areas, so we’ll see how they hold up. It might be too wet for them. Would you be willing to let some acorns go from one of those?

 

[Native Hunter]

I love the oaks. Bur is my favorite since its nearly indestructible. I don't have enough land for it though. Shumard is a close second on the red side.

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I counted about 15 burs when I went through the planting. I will post pics later on.

 

[Native Hunter]

I really like the looks of that tree! We have a few low, wet areas on the Massey, I might get a few of those in the future for those spots. This year we are trying some sawtooths in one of those areas, so we’ll see how they hold up. It might be too wet for them. Would you be willing to let some acorns go from one of those?

I’m really not in to shipping acorns or trading scions or anything like that. I work out of town a lot, and it’s just not something I have time for. My contribution to the forum is helping people in other ways. The good news is that you can find seedlings of this species at different places and probably acorns too.

PS: Another great wet ground oak is the Swamp White Oak. I will cover that one later at some point. It also has highly sought after, low tannin acorns. This might be another option for your low ground. I don't have much hope for your sawtooths in those areas.

 

[dogghr]

You been planting a bunch of those Swamp Oaks??? And by the way, Grant said hard mast trees were poor management for deer. Are you the perpetua of fake news??

 

[Native Hunter]

You been planting a bunch of those Swamp Oaks??? And by the way, Grant said hard mast trees were poor management for deer. Are you the perpetua of fake news??

You tell Grant that the B&C guy verified my Booner score yesterday and we are going in the books.........

 

[momark]

I have about 10 Q. michauxii that were planted about 30 yrs ago. They are producing, but quite intermittently, much like Q. alba. When they do produce the deer key in on them like no other, though. They look like a large white oak acorn, but they must be even more palatable. Wish I would've planted more of them back then.

 

[Native Hunter]

I have about 10 Q. michauxii that were planted about 30 yrs ago. They are producing, but quite intermittently, much like Q. alba. When they do produce the deer key in on them like no other, though. They look like a large white oak acorn, but they must be even more palatable. Wish I would've planted more of them back then.

Good information.

 

[Native Hunter]

I forgot to post these earlier, but here are a couple of the tiny Swamp Chestnut Oak seedlings that I found yesterday when working in the planting. This tells me that we have had acorns at some time in the past.

 

[George]

That is some assortment you have there and rather fortunate that it worked out like it did.

You been planting a bunch of those Swamp Oaks??? And by the way, Grant said hard mast trees were poor management for deer. Are you the perpetua of fake news??

I had to do a double take the first time that I saw Grant send a hot fire up the hill to kill oak trees.

G

 

[Native Hunter]

That is some assortment you have there and rather fortunate that it worked out like it did.

I had to do a double take the first time that I saw Grant send a hot fire up the hill to kill oak trees.

G

I've never watched much of Grant's stuff, but I assume he is killing oaks so that he will have more room to create early successional habitat - is that a correct assumption?

If that's the case, I would argue that a person can have the best of both worlds. I think that's kind of what our friend @dogghr does with his random clusters. He has me hooked on that now.....

 

[Mennoniteman]

You been planting a bunch of those Swamp Oaks??? And by the way, Grant said hard mast trees were poor management for deer. Are you the perpetua of fake news??

Grant Woods seems to be driven by the fact that early successional habitat for deer has six times the amount of yearly available food for whitetails that a mature oak forest does. However, with all due respect to Mr. Woods' degree in biology, selectively cutting an oak forest is light years ahead of fire in taking the first step to properly managing a property for deer. Having a thinned oak tree stand that allows some sunlight to the ground with a thick understory underneath is the best of both worlds. Fire is a great tool, but not the cure for all ills it's promoted to be by some of those big name wildlife managers. And I've noticed that sometimes some of these big name property managers get on a hobby horse, overemphaizing one aspect of deer management at the expense of balancing out a property with many different types of food and cover. Oak tree locations are very key to deer hunting strategies, which tells us right there how important they are for deer food. I'm very much looking forward to following along on this treatise on oak tree species.

 

[Native Hunter]

That is some assortment you have there and rather fortunate that it worked out like it did.

I had to do a double take the first time that I saw Grant send a hot fire up the hill to kill oak trees.

G

Thanks G. There is another fortunate thing for me in this that wasn't planned. It seems that a high percentage of the trees with the most palatable acorns are at good places to hunt relative to my main blind location. I found a spot yesterday where I can cut just a couple of less valuable trees and see right into a grove of well spaced out Swamp Chestnut Oaks. Nearly all of the Swamp White Oaks and probably 70% of the Chinkapin Oaks are at good locations for seeing deer movement due to their presence.

 

[dogghr]

I've never watched much of Grant's stuff, but I assume he is killing oaks so that he will have more room to create early successional habitat - is that a correct assumption?

If that's the case, I would argue that a person can have the best of both worlds. I think that's kind of what our friend @dogghr does with his random clusters. He has me hooked on that now.....

I kinda like some of Grants thinking. But on this he was arguing his foodplots were a more predictable and better consistent food provider for deer. Hog wash. Browse coupled w good hard mast producers is the mainstay of eastern forests. Hence one needs the Chestnut oak, WO, RO, BO, etc varieties to circumvent a complete mast failure any given year.
The mature pre colonial forests were a thicket of varying degrees and variety of nearly impenetrable growth. We have received fake news from the industry for a long time.
Carry on Native. Always good stuff. Still think your place should be named Garden of Eden part 2!! If so....I can walk Adam naked thru it if you want??


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[Native Hunter]

I kinda like some of Grants thinking. But on this he was arguing his foodplots were a more predictable and better consistent food provider for deer. Hog wash. Browse coupled w good hard mast producers is the mainstay of eastern forests. Hence one needs the Chestnut oak, WO, RO, BO, etc varieties to circumvent a complete mast failure any given year.
The mature pre colonial forests were a thicket of varying degrees and variety of nearly impenetrable growth. We have received fake news from the industry for a long time.
Carry on Native. Always good stuff. Still think your place should be named Garden of Eden part 2!! If so....I can walk Adam naked thru it if you want??

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Thanks dogghr, and you are welcome here anytime - as long as you don't show up naked......

 

[weekender21]

Dr. Wood’s property is in southern Missouri in the Ozark’s. He has an oak dominated landscape and many of those are (were) closed canopy post oak and other scraggly species. In his case, hard cuts and burning seem like a reasonable solution. I find most of his recommendations are consistent with those on this forum.

Native-How big is your planting? I have a ~2 acre ride top adjacent to a neighbors cattle pasture. It’s too steep for a food plot and I’ve been brainstorming on how to make it more attractive to turkeys, they frequent that area mainly because of the pasture. What are you thoughts on burning with a pretty high return interval and trying to maintain an open early succession with fire tolerant oak species?


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[Native Hunter]

Dr. Wood’s property is in southern Missouri in the Ozark’s. He has an oak dominated landscape and many of those are (were) closed canopy post oak and other scraggly species. In his case, hard cuts and burning seem like a reasonable solution. I find most of his recommendations are consistent with those on this forum.

Native-How big is your planting? I have a ~2 acre ride top adjacent to a neighbors cattle pasture. It’s too steep for a food plot and I’ve been brainstorming on how to make it more attractive to turkeys, they frequent that area mainly because of the pasture. What are you thoughts on burning with a pretty high return interval and trying to maintain an open early succession with fire tolerant oak species?

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My planting is roughly 12 acres. I think your idea is very good. You are mixing up things that turkeys love - pasture, acorns, burning and eventually roost trees. The only thing I would caution is that you can get things too thick for turkeys. They need to be able to see far enough ahead to take flight if a predator springs out, and those big wings need room to spread without hitting any obstacles. A little planning and work should take care of this issue.

Also consider adding some Allegheny Chinkapins. I have read that they spring back like crazy after a fire once they are established. They would be shade tolerant with oaks nearby and make a small nut that turkey relish. I planted 25 more this weekend. Some of mine are now 20+ feet tall and have not shown any indication of being affected by blight. I will warn, however, that some could not be blight resistant, as I have read.

From what I've seen of your property, you have ideal turkey habitat at many places.

 

[weekender21]

My planting is roughly 12 acres. I think your idea is very good. You are mixing up things that turkeys love - pasture, acorns, burning and eventually roost trees. The only thing I would caution is that you can get things too thick for turkeys. They need to be able to see far enough ahead to take flight if a predator springs out, and those big wings need room to spread without hitting any obstacles. A little planning and work should take care of this issue.

Also consider adding some Allegheny Chinkapins. I have read that they spring back like crazy after a fire once they are established. They would be shade tolerant with oaks nearby and make a small nut that turkey relish. I planted 25 more this weekend. Some of mine are now 20+ feet tall and have not shown any indication of being affected by blight. I will warn, however, that some could not be blight resistant, as I have read.

From what I've seen of your property, you have ideal turkey habitat at many places.

Can you recommend a good place to buy Alleghany Chinkapin?

I hear what you’re saying about getting it too thick. I guess it will larger depend on that specific areas response to fire.

A lot of our property has been logged. The thick young forest provides good deer cover but we do have quite a few areas that are too thick fir turkeys most of the year. Oaks are definitely a missing component for preferred winter habitat.


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[Native Hunter]

Can you recommend a good place to buy Alleghany Chinkapin?

I hear what you’re saying about getting it too thick. I guess it will larger depend on that specific areas response to fire.

A lot of our property has been logged. The thick young forest provides good deer cover but we do have quite a few areas that are too thick fir turkeys most of the year. Oaks are definitely a missing component for preferred winter habitat.

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I've only bought them from one place. That was the Wildlife Group. I avoided planting them for years based on what I had read about many being affected by blight. But, apparently some strains are much more immune than others, and theirs are doing great for me so far. The ones planted several years ago have done great with no signs of blight. Below is a thread I did on them. You can see some pictures there.

Allegheny Chinkapin | Deer Hunter Forum