dogghr
Well-Known Member
I know I stand with a limited group on these forums that don't sweat the predator, and even learn from them at times. Predators come in lots of forms from the yote to the bear to the hawk, and others. I attacked this discussion on the old forum and I don't expect a strong following but I do know there are lessons and knowledge to be learned. I don't expect to make you want to go hug a predator and thank them, but I hope to show how they affect our habitat and its management. And I hope to show that IF you choose, or cannot aggressively shoot or trap predators, that you should not be frustrated as you do have options. And for those that have not taken the time to fully appreciate what the predator can accomplish, I hope to tweak an interest. Comments are welcome of all opinions, you won't hurt my feelings but don't get mad if I laugh a little. Leopold embraced his failure to recognize function of the predator long before our deer herds had exploded to the numbers we have today and often talked of their purpose in the ecology of the landscape. Come along with me and lets look at the predator, especially the much despised Eastern coyote. This will be a long post.
I am no expert but I think I have read and studied enough studies since the 80's and have first hand experience that I can at least share some info. The state I live has had the predator of eagle, Fischer, bear in good numbers most my life. Beginning in the early 80's, farmers were complaining of coyotes being a problem. As with many, I despised them as a group, but as time, and my knowledge moved forward, my attitude changed. I still shoot and trap them and feel that is more a hobby for me than expecting it will truly make a difference.
The first coyote I ever saw was early 80's on a late winter bow hunt. I heard a deer coming thru the woods and she passed me running harder than any deer I'd ever seen. Close behind her came this dog/fox thing that as it neared, I realized was a yote. As I went to draw , it reversed 180 deg faster than any animal I'd ever seen, and ran off. I was intrigued from then on.
Move on and one evening I left a gut shot doe lay, intending to get her the next morning. As you might expect, she was picked clean and I would never leave a deer in the wood again. I still wonder if she were dead when they found her, I hope so. And it peaked my concern as what if I were injured, would these wolf like animal possibly attack if I were defenseless. So I from then on packed a pistol, not for fear of bear, but of fear of the yotes.
Fast forward thru the years. I sat on a bow stand over looking a bedding area 70 yds away. A grey bearded alpha coyote who I knew well, passed my stand and walked into the midst of the bedding area. Within a minute of his passing thru there, no less than a dozen deer, up and down wind, within yards of his path, stood and began leisurely feeding.
I've got pics of deer standing within yards of bear and coyote as they passed. The deer watched, but were aware but not alarmed, and continued feeding after the passes. Hardly the drama we would imagine.
I'll try to stay with studies more recent past 10 years for this post even tho there are those going back into the early 70's I've read.
Now make no mistake, deer , especially fawn, are taken by these predators, and we have to acknowledge that and plan accordingly. More on that much later.
Eastern Coyote. It is important to understand that these are much different than those that live in the midwest plains. DNA has proven that they interbred with wolf on their path thru the north and into most of the NE. They are 30% larger, or about 10#. And they hunt much like wolves , in groups, and capable of taking down large game, including adult deer. They followed the growing deer herd from the north, staying east of the OH river. This group merged in with another group that migrated up from the south so areas of WV, VA, and PA have these two intermixing. Eventually, being opportunistic , they have migrated across the OH into the midwest areas, as have the bear.
Genetics. The West, the coyote is 100% gene pool yote. The wolf will readily kill them, and where wolf, seldom many yotes. The Great Lake area...85% wolf/15% yote genes. Ontario...58% wolf/42% yote genes.
As a side note, the Red Wolf which has been reintroduced into the Carolinas to supposedly reestablish the natural breed, is only 23 % wolf. Thus the coyote of the south is more wolf than the wolf they are trying to reintroduce!! Typical.
Well lets trap and shoot them then. Hold on. One study of 8000 ac, they trapped 475 yotes the first year. Indeed the first year, fawn recruitment increase. But then recruitment leveled back to pre trapping numbers. They ran 50 traps/night for 4 months for 3 years without any significant impact. When you kill, the remaining ones then shift home ranges which exposes more fawns as the roam more. 30000 yotes have been killed in SC yet no real change in fawn recruitment has occurred. The SE is dealing with more a yote issue than much the rest of the country for a variety of reasons. Northern deer have seemed to have adapted better to their presence.
Another study incorporated a 55 sq mile and a 22 sq mile area with removal of the predator. Again, the first year, there was an improvement in fawn recruitment, and again, it returned to near prepredator levels the following years. Yet another southern study removed coyotes and fence predator proof fence was placed. Again, levels moved up first year the returned to nearly the same recruitment levels of the unfenced area.
In most any study, it is expected the fawn survival rate is about 50% with most losses within the first 3 months of birth and as expected, main losses occur in June. Another fawn study showed About 55% die the first wk and about 23 % starve/abandoned. 40-60% of the deaths are predator related.
In one study from 2006-2012, of 138 adult female deer fitted with collars, 87 % survived the period with losses mainly from hunting and vehicles.
There are 2 types of coyote groups. Transient and Resident. The transient group move in circular pattern up to 150 miles, often following interstates, even crossing bridges, usually between 2-5 AM. They move every 2-6 wks for as much a 30 miles/ day. If they enter an area where there is enough food, then they know the resident yote is dead, and they move in and become that resident.
It has been shown in some older studies that if the alpha male is killed, the subordinates then become more aggressive trying to establish themselves as the alpha and more fawn predation occurs in the short term. In addition, some studies promote the idea if yotes are killed, they tend to produce larger litters to compensate. Thus an established pack, with a resident alpha male, tend to cause less drama with the deer herd. I can attest to that as my grey beard, the one I mentioned early in this text, has been with me nearly 7 years that I know of and even tho I know his routine quite well, and on camera often, I seldom see much issue with his group. But I am quite aware that they and my bear take some of my fawns at least. But there may be other reasons because of my choice of management.
Two main types of predation. Compensatory and Additive. Compensatory is where a predator kills that which would have died from other causes later in the year, i.e. starved to death, while additive predation are ills that add to the total mortality rate, i.e. such as healthy deer that would have survived. So the question to be asked in and area is whether most predation is additive or compensatory.
So what are we to do? I've trapped up to 12 yotes/yr on another property. The next year, seems not much difference in there numbers, and another 7-12 will be taken. An adjacent county in VA has had a bounty for 30 years. Despite heavy trapping and shooting, they still have an apparent problem. I just don't think most managers have the time, energy, or money to actually make a difference on relatively small properties. Studies show that to be effective, it must encompass thousands of acreage.
First , evaluate your habitat. Is it over browsed? Do you have great safe bedding and fawning areas? Is there plenty of edge present for escape? Are you setting up prime attack areas by using corn piles, feeders, or mineral licks? Are your plots simply concentrated feeding areas that a predator can easily access? Have you taken into account the obvious number of deer that predators will take and adjusted your self imposed limits accordingly? Is your herd healthy, having a concentrated fawn drop, thus overwhelming predator affect?
Or do you whine and moan about predators taking your beloved deer, grabbing a gun to shoot the occasional running yote only to stay aggravated. Or do you observe and see their amazing adaptability? Do you notice less mice, less groundhogs, less skunks, less coons, less snakes, that can be a nuisance? Do you watch how they move, where they travel, how they hunt and learn from their techniques? Do you spend time improving that habitat such as to make the predator job difficult?
We certainly are guardians of our landscape. I doubt many of us could feed our family every day, every wk of every year from what we catch. Learn and respect. Look at your habitat from the inside-out,as part of the equation, not from the outside-in as most of society does. Read Leopold and understand of what he means when he speaks of what the mountain knows.
Part 2
http://deerhunterforum.com/index.ph...an-you-win-part-2-black-bear-and-others.3766/
I am no expert but I think I have read and studied enough studies since the 80's and have first hand experience that I can at least share some info. The state I live has had the predator of eagle, Fischer, bear in good numbers most my life. Beginning in the early 80's, farmers were complaining of coyotes being a problem. As with many, I despised them as a group, but as time, and my knowledge moved forward, my attitude changed. I still shoot and trap them and feel that is more a hobby for me than expecting it will truly make a difference.
The first coyote I ever saw was early 80's on a late winter bow hunt. I heard a deer coming thru the woods and she passed me running harder than any deer I'd ever seen. Close behind her came this dog/fox thing that as it neared, I realized was a yote. As I went to draw , it reversed 180 deg faster than any animal I'd ever seen, and ran off. I was intrigued from then on.
Move on and one evening I left a gut shot doe lay, intending to get her the next morning. As you might expect, she was picked clean and I would never leave a deer in the wood again. I still wonder if she were dead when they found her, I hope so. And it peaked my concern as what if I were injured, would these wolf like animal possibly attack if I were defenseless. So I from then on packed a pistol, not for fear of bear, but of fear of the yotes.
Fast forward thru the years. I sat on a bow stand over looking a bedding area 70 yds away. A grey bearded alpha coyote who I knew well, passed my stand and walked into the midst of the bedding area. Within a minute of his passing thru there, no less than a dozen deer, up and down wind, within yards of his path, stood and began leisurely feeding.
I've got pics of deer standing within yards of bear and coyote as they passed. The deer watched, but were aware but not alarmed, and continued feeding after the passes. Hardly the drama we would imagine.
I'll try to stay with studies more recent past 10 years for this post even tho there are those going back into the early 70's I've read.
Now make no mistake, deer , especially fawn, are taken by these predators, and we have to acknowledge that and plan accordingly. More on that much later.
Eastern Coyote. It is important to understand that these are much different than those that live in the midwest plains. DNA has proven that they interbred with wolf on their path thru the north and into most of the NE. They are 30% larger, or about 10#. And they hunt much like wolves , in groups, and capable of taking down large game, including adult deer. They followed the growing deer herd from the north, staying east of the OH river. This group merged in with another group that migrated up from the south so areas of WV, VA, and PA have these two intermixing. Eventually, being opportunistic , they have migrated across the OH into the midwest areas, as have the bear.
Genetics. The West, the coyote is 100% gene pool yote. The wolf will readily kill them, and where wolf, seldom many yotes. The Great Lake area...85% wolf/15% yote genes. Ontario...58% wolf/42% yote genes.
As a side note, the Red Wolf which has been reintroduced into the Carolinas to supposedly reestablish the natural breed, is only 23 % wolf. Thus the coyote of the south is more wolf than the wolf they are trying to reintroduce!! Typical.
Well lets trap and shoot them then. Hold on. One study of 8000 ac, they trapped 475 yotes the first year. Indeed the first year, fawn recruitment increase. But then recruitment leveled back to pre trapping numbers. They ran 50 traps/night for 4 months for 3 years without any significant impact. When you kill, the remaining ones then shift home ranges which exposes more fawns as the roam more. 30000 yotes have been killed in SC yet no real change in fawn recruitment has occurred. The SE is dealing with more a yote issue than much the rest of the country for a variety of reasons. Northern deer have seemed to have adapted better to their presence.
Another study incorporated a 55 sq mile and a 22 sq mile area with removal of the predator. Again, the first year, there was an improvement in fawn recruitment, and again, it returned to near prepredator levels the following years. Yet another southern study removed coyotes and fence predator proof fence was placed. Again, levels moved up first year the returned to nearly the same recruitment levels of the unfenced area.
In most any study, it is expected the fawn survival rate is about 50% with most losses within the first 3 months of birth and as expected, main losses occur in June. Another fawn study showed About 55% die the first wk and about 23 % starve/abandoned. 40-60% of the deaths are predator related.
In one study from 2006-2012, of 138 adult female deer fitted with collars, 87 % survived the period with losses mainly from hunting and vehicles.
There are 2 types of coyote groups. Transient and Resident. The transient group move in circular pattern up to 150 miles, often following interstates, even crossing bridges, usually between 2-5 AM. They move every 2-6 wks for as much a 30 miles/ day. If they enter an area where there is enough food, then they know the resident yote is dead, and they move in and become that resident.
It has been shown in some older studies that if the alpha male is killed, the subordinates then become more aggressive trying to establish themselves as the alpha and more fawn predation occurs in the short term. In addition, some studies promote the idea if yotes are killed, they tend to produce larger litters to compensate. Thus an established pack, with a resident alpha male, tend to cause less drama with the deer herd. I can attest to that as my grey beard, the one I mentioned early in this text, has been with me nearly 7 years that I know of and even tho I know his routine quite well, and on camera often, I seldom see much issue with his group. But I am quite aware that they and my bear take some of my fawns at least. But there may be other reasons because of my choice of management.
Two main types of predation. Compensatory and Additive. Compensatory is where a predator kills that which would have died from other causes later in the year, i.e. starved to death, while additive predation are ills that add to the total mortality rate, i.e. such as healthy deer that would have survived. So the question to be asked in and area is whether most predation is additive or compensatory.
So what are we to do? I've trapped up to 12 yotes/yr on another property. The next year, seems not much difference in there numbers, and another 7-12 will be taken. An adjacent county in VA has had a bounty for 30 years. Despite heavy trapping and shooting, they still have an apparent problem. I just don't think most managers have the time, energy, or money to actually make a difference on relatively small properties. Studies show that to be effective, it must encompass thousands of acreage.
First , evaluate your habitat. Is it over browsed? Do you have great safe bedding and fawning areas? Is there plenty of edge present for escape? Are you setting up prime attack areas by using corn piles, feeders, or mineral licks? Are your plots simply concentrated feeding areas that a predator can easily access? Have you taken into account the obvious number of deer that predators will take and adjusted your self imposed limits accordingly? Is your herd healthy, having a concentrated fawn drop, thus overwhelming predator affect?
Or do you whine and moan about predators taking your beloved deer, grabbing a gun to shoot the occasional running yote only to stay aggravated. Or do you observe and see their amazing adaptability? Do you notice less mice, less groundhogs, less skunks, less coons, less snakes, that can be a nuisance? Do you watch how they move, where they travel, how they hunt and learn from their techniques? Do you spend time improving that habitat such as to make the predator job difficult?
We certainly are guardians of our landscape. I doubt many of us could feed our family every day, every wk of every year from what we catch. Learn and respect. Look at your habitat from the inside-out,as part of the equation, not from the outside-in as most of society does. Read Leopold and understand of what he means when he speaks of what the mountain knows.
Part 2
http://deerhunterforum.com/index.ph...an-you-win-part-2-black-bear-and-others.3766/
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