Standing grain

So I am trying to come up with a seed mix for some winter food for a new plot. I have a clover plot now but is usually cleaned by first of December. We get 3-4 ft of snow and a long drawn out winter. I was thinking about going with some turnip, rape, oats and wheat and leaving the grain stand. Will the deer eat the seed heads and oats during the winter?


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I’ve got all of two seasons experience with food plots but for me winter rye seeded seeded in September has been very impressive. They use it all winter and into the spring. We don’t get deep snow though.
 
I dont have experience with the snow - but deer will eat the mature, dry wheat heads - in the summer down here. And it doesnt have to be awnless wheat.
 
Your location would help us all out for more detailed info about your growing season.That is a pretty good mix for a plot. Your grains won't produce seed heads unless you plant earlier in the year, based on your location, to allow them time to grow and go to seed. What you will get is green leaves under the snow that the deer will paw at and dig out of the snow to eat, along with the brassicas. Do some reading of the forums and you can find some pretty good answers to mixes used by most of us and also check out the LC/Paul Knox mix thread. He did more work and testing than most of us thought about and we all base a lot of our mixes on what he did and then adjust to our area/soils.
 
Late season cereals are limited but there are always soybeans (still have to worry about shatter),milo, or corn if you have a large enough area to plant. Also need to consider how they will begin consumption and if it will be allowed to mature with or without fencing.


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Thanks for the info! Maybe I will try to plant some grain early and some when I put the turnip and rape in the ground. I am in Nova Scotia with heavy clay soil. Absolutely no agricultural land around and low deer density. I have 2 does that use my clover plot until the snow gets too deep and I think I had 5 bucks come through this fall.


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Nova Trapper, The short answer to your question is rye/triticale and turnips but there is more to the story. I'm located on the line of zone 4 and 5 lying between Lake Ontario and Tugg Hill. We get less snow than the Hill but are in the snow belt for sure. There is a picture on my property tour thread "Recreating a Deer Woods" of deer digging thru snow to eat winter rye in the dead of winter. The deer were there just about every single winter day on and off all day. Scroll down about 1/2 way down the linked page to see said pic.
http://www.deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/recreating-a-deer-woods.1088/page-7

Like yours, our winters are long and extreme; By February a ten degree day if still and sunny, feels delightfully warm! Since the spring of 2014 when well over thirty winter killed deer were found on this property, we have focused on helping the deer get thru winters in as good a shape as possible. We had put forth much effort to get deer thru winter prior to the winter kill year but that caused us to focus on it even more.Trying to sum up what is written on my thread here are the main efforts that have helped get us to a population of around 64 deer counted/calculated pre-fawn during late winter 2017 on 605 acres. In no order of importance because each activity helps the other.

-Logged a quarter of the property a year for three years running with the goal of creating great deer woods over any consideration for future timber production except for one14 acre stand of hard maple. Besides raising our fawn recruitment thru the roof via its protective cover, the resultant browse is now available to house and feed the deer all winter.
-Released over two thousand wild apple trees. This of course produces millions of apples some of which last thru winter but as or more importantly apple tree browse is the hands down, number 1 preferred, winter deer browse here. Huge amounts of other brushy browse plants growing in the sunlight around the released apple trees is also a large side benefit.
-Planted over thirty acres of rye and triticale which as mentioned, the deer feed on mostly daily throughout the winter. It is important to note that food plot locations abutting the thickest nastiest cover sanctuaries receive the most deer use and help the deer to both conserve energy And avoid predators(coyotes here). Also the rye/triticale plot benefits the deer the most in windswept spots where the snow may only be two to three feet deep instead of four, five or even worse.
-Planted around three acres of turnips annually with around July 15 being an optimum planting date. Again, it is important not to cause the deer to risk their lives to travel to the winter plot. It needs to abut protective cover.
-Dropped full sized poplar trees(quaking aspen) in late January/early February in bunches of four to five and as with food plots always near holding cover. Have witnessed over twenty deer a day eating the tops of just one dropped poplar. We plan to drop them annually during winter at a rate that is sustainable.

I'm sure I've missed some stuff but these were at least some of the major activities that have resulted in a population "explosion" on this property while properties around me are barely in a holding pattern. Food plots matter, no doubt about it but they alone will not get deer thru winters like where you and I live.
 
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Chainsaw, your post shows more than any other I've ever read, exactly why we spend the time and money to do what we do. It's all about the resource. It's not really about killing a deer, it's about providing ALL the deer and other wildlife on our farms and leases with the most food and cover that we possibly can. For that, we get to have some tasty (and healthy) venison to feed to our families.

Your efforts, because of where you live, are more complicated and time consuming than mine, and I salute you for them !
 
Wow! I'm almost speechless.... thank you chainsaw! Do you plant the rye/triticale together? When do you try to plant it by?
We had major winter kill in 2014-2015 as well but haven't recovered yet for some reason. Very few fawns last couple of years. I trap as many coyotes as I can but I think the black bears are starting to play a roll now as well.
I will be reading the thread you attached!
Thanks again


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Chainsaw, your post shows more than any other I've ever read, exactly why we spend the time and money to do what we do. It's all about the resource. It's not really about killing a deer, it's about providing ALL the deer and other wildlife on our farms and leases with the most food and cover that we possibly can. For that, we get to have some tasty (and healthy) venison to feed to our families.

Your efforts, because of where you live, are more complicated and time consuming than mine, and I salute you for them !

Thank you Dry Creek! And you are correct ;it is very expensive and time consuming to create and maintain a wildlife paradise here as well as in most places and probably more than most places. The daily rewards however far outweigh the effort put forth. And also as you said, it is not really about killing deer, in fact it is not at all about killing deer.
 
Wow! I'm almost speechless.... thank you chainsaw! Do you plant the rye/triticale together? When do you try to plant it by?
We had major winter kill in 2014-2015 as well but haven't recovered yet for some reason. Very few fawns last couple of years. I trap as many coyotes as I can but I think the black bears are starting to play a roll now as well.
I will be reading the thread you attached!
Thanks again


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You are very welcome Novatrapper. Trapping coyotes probably saves a lot of fawns lives somewhere in your area. However because they travel so much more coyotes may move in as quick as you remove some. That's where the brush/heavy cover comes in. In the open woods the fawns are sitting ducks; hidden in the heavy brush they have a fighting chance to go unnoticed. We have no experience with bears preying on fawns here but I'm guessing the same strategy of providing the fawns with great hiding cover is your best bet. As in coyotes, removing whatever bears you can legally remove certainly has to help somewhat but you can't remove them all which makes cover so critical to the fawns survival. I'm certain the cover is making the difference for us because people in town are mentioning to me that they are seeing many, many does with zero fawns while on this property we are regularly seeing does with twin and even triplet fawns and very few does with one or none. Earlier in the summer we weren't seeing so many fawns but during hunting season we did. On your property, do you have lots of thick cover for the fawns to hide in or are they "hiding" in open woods?

The rye and triticale is planted by my farmer friend on a schedule where he can fit it in. Plant it too early like July1 and I'm told the risk is the snow will crush it and it might smother itself. Note; I've not seen that happen but am told it does here. I like to see it planted in mid August for a good growth by winter. For fall feeding however Sept. 1 thru 8 is a good time. Every year is different; this year it didn't get in until early September but we have had a mild fall and it has grown very well and is in good shape to feed the deer in the winter. The deer are in it most evenings now about sunset. The rye and triticale may be planted in the same field but is not mixed because we harvest the seeds separately. For here planting probably the last week of August thru sept 5 is a good compromise for both the food for fall and food for winter. Keep in mind though that though we are in a cold zone due to Lake Ontario our first frosts come later than most other zone 4/5 areas.

Clear cutting some of our poplar stands created some great instant cover; do you have poplar stands on your property? I would have liked to clear cut many more but have chosen to spread out the cutting of them over many years to feed deer in winter as mentioned and also to continually provide the fresh massive poplar root sprouts that come after clearcutting a stand. Like most things well thought out, small steps are best.

Be sure to post any questions and even anything you may disagree with when reading the "Recreating a Deer Woods" thread; I learn a lot from everyone's comments and questions.
 
You would have to use a spring wheat/triticale or a spring rye if there is such a thing to get any grain for going into winter. Unless you plan on a plot of winter grains left from the year before, so you would have a year old plot and a freshly planted plot for the following year. From what Ive always been told, you can plant WW, etc any month of the year as long as it freezes before a certain point in its growth cycle to make a decent grain yield.
Beans would be a good choice, but it would have to be a very short season bean to put any decent amount of pods on before winter.
 
Nova Trapper, The short answer to your question is rye/triticale and turnips but there is more to the story. I'm located on the line of zone 4 and 5 lying between Lake Ontario and Tugg Hill. We get less snow than the Hill but are in the snow belt for sure. There is a picture on my property tour thread "Recreating a Deer Woods" of deer digging thru snow to eat winter rye in the dead of winter. The deer were there just about every single winter day on and off all day. Scroll down about 1/2 way down the linked page to see said pic.
http://www.deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/recreating-a-deer-woods.1088/page-7

Like yours, our winters are long and extreme; By February a ten degree day if still and sunny, feels delightfully warm! Since the spring of 2014 when well over thirty winter killed deer were found on this property, we have focused on helping the deer get thru winters in as good a shape as possible. We had put forth much effort to get deer thru winter prior to the winter kill year but that caused us to focus on it even more.Trying to sum up what is written on my thread here are the main efforts that have helped get us to a population of around 64 deer counted/calculated pre-fawn during late winter 2017 on 605 acres. In no order of importance because each activity helps the other.

-Logged a quarter of the property a year for three years running with the goal of creating great deer woods over any consideration for future timber production except for one14 acre stand of hard maple. Besides raising our fawn recruitment thru the roof via its protective cover, the resultant browse is now available to house and feed the deer all winter.
-Released over two thousand wild apple trees. This of course produces millions of apples some of which last thru winter but as or more importantly apple tree browse is the hands down, number 1 preferred, winter deer browse here. Huge amounts of other brushy browse plants growing in the sunlight around the released apple trees is also a large side benefit.
-Planted over thirty acres of rye and triticale which as mentioned, the deer feed on mostly daily throughout the winter. It is important to note that food plot locations abutting the thickest nastiest cover sanctuaries receive the most deer use and help the deer to both conserve energy And avoid predators(coyotes here). Also the rye/triticale plot benefits the deer the most in windswept spots where the snow may only be two to three feet deep instead of four, five or even worse.
-Planted around three acres of turnips annually with around July 15 being an optimum planting date. Again, it is important not to cause the deer to risk their lives to travel to the winter plot. It needs to abut protective cover.
-Dropped full sized poplar trees(quaking aspen) in late January/early February in bunches of four to five and as with food plots always near holding cover. Have witnessed over twenty deer a day eating the tops of just one dropped poplar. We plan to drop them annually during winter at a rate that is sustainable.

I'm sure I've missed some stuff but these were at least some of the major activities that have resulted in a population "explosion" on this property while properties around me are barely in a holding pattern. Food plots matter, no doubt about it but they alone will not get deer thru winters like where you and I live.
Can you elaborate on the turnips? What kind? Do the deer eat the tops first and then the bulbs? How long do they last? I've got two acres of ptt this year, but so far the deer haven't been eating the bulbs...
 
Mennoniteman, the turnips used are PTT the same as yours. The optimum planting date here is about July 15 but sometimes it is too dry or too wet so next year I plan to start July 1 if the soil is right moisture wise just to be safe. The deer eat the turnip bulbs pretty late like maybe in a couple of weeks usually but with it being warmer this year they probably won't hit them for a while yet. The tops look almost slimy in late December but they don't seem to mind as they eat them anyway. They eat the radish tops and bulbs first. The turnips last thru late winter with just about all of them gone by snowmelt. The volume produced of plant and bulb per acre is very high. The bulbs have weighed just over eight pounds maximum with most being half that--still very large at that though. I have used significant amounts of nitrogen on the turnips (279 lbs of urea per acre on the best located plot) and they have responded very well to it. Using so much was a miscalculation but since it worked well, I use that amount in the best plot now. Last year we had a poor turnip year because it was too dry; this year it was too wet. Last year the rye/triticale carried the deer just fine but it was an easy winter compared to most of them here.

It is good that the deer eat the turnips late so that way there are plenty thru most of the winter. The deer here liked the turnips the first year we planted them; it didn't take a couple of years for them to try the turnips as others have experienced. As per the LC mix thread, the turnips and kale and radishes are planted together and are rotated annually with the grain sections of the food plots. I didn't mention the kale and radishes before because I consider them to be fall food versus winter food and the thread is asking about winter food. I basically follow the LC mix but experiment with soybeans and this year experimented with solid pea stands as well. In contrast when we used to plant corn for the winter feed, it would all be gone by early December so it did not help them thru the winter as the turnips do. The corn just plain draws too many outside deer to the property during winter.

Regarding turnips check Elk Addicts thread; Elk has found rutabagas to be in more demand than the turnips. I have not tried the rutabagas yet but definitely plan to. If they work here I'll plant both turnips and rutabagas for the winter brassica in addition to the rye and triticale of course. Here is a link to one of the Elk Addicts thread pages showing the rutabagas in January.
http://www.deerhunterforum.com/index.php?threads/upstate-obsession.53/page-7

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Can you elaborate on the turnips? What kind? Do the deer eat the tops first and then the bulbs? How long do they last? I've got two acres of ptt this year, but so far the deer haven't been eating the bulbs...
If you have a prime acorn crop like I do this year, the deer don't hit plots nearly as hard. My deer however typically begin feeding on brassica as soon as they grow and like Chainsaw said, hit the bulbs late which usually last thru Feb for me. I've had brassica destroyed by Dec in bad years of weather or poor hard mast and others like this year, they are ignored while stuffing themselves with acorns.
A lot of people, including LC , liked adding a Daikon type radish in mix but my deer like them so much they are long gone before hunting season never standing a chance. And since they are the most expensive of the brassica, I no longer bother with with them.
Typically I use PTT, lettuce, radishes ,DER, and anything else the coop wants to get rid of cheap. Sometime in Nov I will overseed the browsed brassica with WR or WW to prevent bare soil in the late winter as brassica are eaten. Smells and looks like a mine field once they are done. As farmers now overseed their harvested fields in the winter, the prices have sneaked up from the demand. And I like it better when their fields were barren in winter as I had even better attraction to my plantings.
 
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Thanks Chainsaw and Dogghr for the primer on turnips. I'm hoping my deer are like yours and hit the PTT bulbs in midwinter. It's easy to grow plots for deer in the three warm seasons, but growing a plot with something in it for deer to eat in midwinter separates the men from the boys. I'm always interested anything that feeds deer in the winter, because that's the key to a healthy herd of big bodied deer. I planted my rye on October first this year and that was a bit late, it didn't grow enough before cold weather to last for the winter under heavy grazing. It stays green, but doesn't grow much from December on. Corn is no good here because it just attracts every bear in the county all fall, they chase the deer away, and then leave the day before bear season opens. So hopefully the PTT will help, plus we've got a good stand of soybean pods. If anyone has any other ideas for late winter deer food please share.
 
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