Scotty the Shed Dog

[wbpdeer]

Congrats on the new arrival. I'm not a fan of dog parks until all puppy vaccines have been given. I treat so much Parvo here in Oklahoma I am probably a little overly cautious.
Have fun and let the journey begin
Todd

If no dogs are present and there is no water available (it is winterized), am I at risk taking him to the dog park? We have only been the first afternoon. Gosh I wanted to reward him and thought that was a sure thing. He has his last booster scheduled in 4 weeks. This dog owner has no clue - please advise me. Pup is too valuable for me to be stupid because I don't know what I don't know.

Thanks Todd.

Wayne

 

[dogdoc]

It doesn't matter if dogs are present and doesn't matter if there is no water. Just keep him away from areas that have high dog traffic until his vaccinations are all done. The parvo virus is spread by feces.

 

[wbpdeer]

Well we can stay away from the dog park until March 1st without any problem. Thanks for the wise advice Dogdoc.

I took Scotty to the farm with the antler. Gosh he loves the outdoors. He ran with trained dogs for about 3 weeks. His focus was sharp and retrieved 11 for 11 throws. I was taking time between most throws. I did give him two back to back and he stayed on task.

In my back yard, his focus on antler is about 2 or 3 throws. Too many distractions in my yard. Also, the back yard is about potty training and obedience training.

At 20 minutes and 10 throws he was tired. So we walked thickets and he learned to cross dead falls. He hit the creek and was fine. It was my intent to exercise him. I want him to rest good in his crate today.

The last throw was on the way to the truck at about 55 minutes and he was as good as any of the retrieves. I will not train on the antler in the yard anymore. We will do that at the farm. Work some more retrieve sessions and then show him silhouettes at a distance.

Thanks for reading this thread. Scotty has a great food drive. Next trip to the farm I will take more treats. The exercise was good for this ole war horse too.

Wayne

 

[wbpdeer]

Got two videos of his antler work today, Jan 24, 2017. He is three months, three days old. He best work to date was this morning on his first trip to the farm.

Thanks for viewing these videos.

 

[dogdoc]

I don't know how much difference it is when retrieving a bumper compared to an antler but I always quit with the pup wanting more. Each pup is different. Some pup may always want more and some might get bored after just a few retrieves. Lets say a pup get bored after about 10 retrieves. On about retrieve 5 or 6 while the pup is excited I will tease the pup with the bumper and when the pup thinks I am going to throw it again I stick it in my back pocked and put the pup in the crate. Just a trick taught to my by a professional retriever trainer. Always make them wanting more!!! It adds drive to the pup.

Just a thought
todd

 

[wbpdeer]

Todd,

I think what you say is the rule. He got here Friday afternoon and basically today was the 4th full day. I have got him settled in his crate. He now knows he gets out and has fun. He has ridden in the truck about 4 times and that works for him.

Today is the first day he has demonstrated multiple commands on cue. His focus was great on the farm. In my back yard, he has to smell everything. He has been average or below average on the antler at home. At the farm he was top notch.

I will have silhouettes next week and that will be helpful on the retrieve and sight recognition of the antler he encounters.

Chalk today up to me seeing how he liked the farm. He don't like it - he loves it. He ran with the big dogs for 3 1/2 weeks. He is not a yard puppy - he has seen the woods before and with the right crew.

I am learning and I am learning my dog. What I learned today was we are going to have great fun on this journey.

Scotty now follows me out the front door off the porch and straight to his scent zone. He relieves himself and we are headed to the back yard. Now this is done without a leash.

I will work on retrieving more often with less repetitions each session.

Thanks for the advice.

His obedience training is improving - we "place" then "Sit" on the platform with increasing delay. I give command to "Come" and the command to "Sit" at this point I allow him to show some discipline and them I reward with the treat. Huge progress over Friday afternoon.

He has improved on the distance he will move to the "Place" platform. Tomorrow I will put two plywood circles on two tires. These were the Place platforms at this kennel in Indiana. I hope he responds well to them.

Thanks for reading this thread.

Wayne

 

[Brushpile]

I don't know how much difference it is when retrieving a bumper compared to an antler but I always quit with the pup wanting more. Each pup is different. Some pup may always want more and some might get bored after just a few retrieves. Lets say a pup get bored after about 10 retrieves. On about retrieve 5 or 6 while the pup is excited I will tease the pup with the bumper and when the pup thinks I am going to throw it again I stick it in my back pocked and put the pup in the crate. Just a trick taught to my by a professional retriever trainer. Always make them wanting more!!! It adds drive to the pup.

Just a thought
todd

That works with tracking as well. I am going to run shorter tracks during training. Also, I deprive the dog of food for 3-4 hours before a track.

 

[PineSapJunky]

I feel like a kid in school looking at the smart kid's test sitting next to me. I'll let your sort out all of the bugs and just follow what works. Distractions are going to be a big part around here. 3 kids a wife and living on our farm should add a level of difficulty. What will you be using for silhouettes?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[wbpdeer]

If you go to Everything Shed Dog, they sell you a kit but they are expensive. They are an oversized shipping item that adds approximately another $10 which moves the cost right under $40 to your door. My granddaughter has excellent art skills and she is designing me a template. I am going to cut mine out of white plastic tote lids. I use many plastic containers in growing seedlings.

If you could get some plastic white corrugate sign board I believe that would make a good template. She and went over the dimensions yesterday and I will get the silhouette pattern on Monday. I will use a dermal tool to cut them out. They will not be identical in size or shape.

Drill One. You set the silhouette in the yard close. Sit the dog and get them excited on a rubber antler or shed antler. Toss the antler toward the silhouette. Release the dog to retrieve the thrown antler. Do this is at least two different silhouettes. Repeat this a sufficient number of days to get some discipline.

Drill Two. You sit the dog and he has to have some discipline developed on the sit command. You are going to walk the antler to the silhouette and place the antler with the dog watching. Go back to the dog so you are standing by the dog. Point toward the antler and release the dog - my command is "Find the Bone". We expect the dog to go retrieve the antler. My dog is food driven and he gets rewarded for bringing the antler back to me. Ideally I can sit him and take the antler from his mouth. At this stage we aren't concerned about hold. That happens with a different session. Repeat this a sufficient number of days to get some discipline.

Drill Three. We have things set up ahead of the dog being brought out to the location. We have our silhouettes in a slightly further locations but are visible to the dog. Our antlers are located at the silhouettes. We sit the dog, we point with our hand and give the "Find the Bone" command. Our three sessions are Visual Training. We hope our dog goes to the first silhouette and retrieves the antler.

I am dealing with a pup - so I will have the potty time completed before I do these train to sight exercises.

Modification on Drill Two. We sit the dog and have him watch us walk the antler out to a single silhouette. We take the dog away and don't allow him to retrieve the antler. We can take him inside for five minutes. This is a memory imprint deal. After five minutes, bring the dog right back to the sit location. Sit the dog, now point to the silhouette and say "Find the Bone." Your search command may be "Get the Bone" or "Fetch the Bone"

These methods I got from YouTube videos and a DVD I purchased by Tom Dokken.

Theory. Dogs rely on their nose as their primary sense. We teach sight recognition of an antler first so they will use their sight. If we teach scent first they will never rely on their sight much.

If you have less time than me and don't mind paying, you can order the silhouette kit at Everything Shed Dog. I got my antler wax from them.

Wayne

 

[wbpdeer]

Got the dog pen finished. Weather has been iffy and had to schedule some help to get the wire tight on the front side.

I put Scotty in the pen and when to town. He was barking when I left. After 30 minutes I returned and parked on the side street where I could observe him without him knowing. He was having a ball. He likes to run and drag a 3/8 rope and I had three of his toys in the pen.

It was fun to see him getting all of that exercise in his new pen. It is 20 wide and 29 long with 6 foot fence. I put wood down on the inside to discourage him digging out. I have had one of his platforms inside the pen. In the photo below it is at the end of red arrow. It is the location for "Place" and has served the training process very well. This pen is for day time exercise. I intend this dog to be inside at night.



In the photo you see the leash attached. I do this to help him accept the leash as part of his world. If the pen works out as well as I think it will, it will be increased in length probably in late March. It will go from 29 feet long to 78 feet long. If it goes that way, the pen will help his stamina.

Thanks for reading this thread.

Wayne

 

[wbpdeer]

Update Jan 28th

Left home at 4:15 AM and drove to Western Indiana to a Shed Dog Trial. My first attendance at one of these events. Time was well spent. Learn many things that will help me out. Watched handlers as much as dogs. They ran a great event. Google Maps messed me up and a couple others on locating address.

Never been to one - so what you think and what you find can vary. I was surprised at how narrow their course was and it was not very long. Naturally, I only had my imagination - now that has been replaced with some real life observations.

Wind direction and a dog's nose are a big deal in these events. It appears the better handlers move slowly and allow their dog to work the course from beginning to end. If a dog skips one or two antlers - the back tracking takes time.

Today's course was 100% in the woods. This Tennessee Hunter was impressed at the size of the sheds they used. Dogs in the higher classifications had to retrieve one elk antler. Huge compare to the whitetail sheds.

This post is my observations after seeing my first trial. There is work to be done to get Scotty ready for his future debut.

Next Month I will attend a Shed Dog Trial south of Brownstown, Indiana. Looking forward to it.

One last observation - training a new dog for one of these trials will require distraction training IMO. A dog needs to hunt around people and around other animals. I don't have any timeframe in mind - it is more about developing abilities in the dog and with the dog.

Wayne

 

[Doctorbrady]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Wayne. Very informative.

 

[PineSapJunky]

It looks like I'm going to have to travel if I get serious about this shed hunting. Shed hunting has not caught on down here yet. There's some Facebook pages but no clubs really......road trip!!!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[wbpdeer]

Update Jan 31st

Back to basics for Scotty. He is a pup which means he can give in to what he thinks is fun as opposed to pleasing him handler.

Purchased 100 feet of 1/4 rope for two lines - one short for inside the house and a long one for outside. Early in the day he wants to keep the antler instead of retrieve to hand. Part of that is being a puppy and part of that is me getting paid back for putting two small 3 point sheds in his exercise pen to chew on.

I took them out at someone's wise advice after two days and now I am paying.

I am now working on retrieve in the house with 100% food reward for doing it correctly. If I can get 3 good sessions two days in a row then I will move to the back yard. Even though we will work outside, I will continue to do the sessions in the house.

My granddaughter helped me with a silhouette image. Got two made this morning out white plastic tops from totes that I use to transport seedlings in when I am delivering.



You can't see in the photo but this plastic silhouette is elevated about 3 inches above the grass. The tallest time is 11 1/4 inches high and each point has exaggerated mass. The silhouette is part of the sight recognition and will be used to train the dog to range out when given the "Find the Bone" command.

Doing a home made silhouette job saved me money. I am going to concentrate on the lead line in the house first and the silhouettes outside will be second.

Thanks for reading this thread.

Wayne

 

[wbpdeer]

Update Feb 1st

Scotty has been with us 12 days. I have worked with him 11 days. The day he arrived we didn't work. Scotty is excited by the rubber antler and he lives to retrieve. The rubber antler is safe for him but it is large compared to his size.

The dog is smart but he is saddled with me and this is my first rodeo. My wife agreed to video with the phone. He will drop the antler in one point and is redirected to it. He goes back to get the antler - watch him jerk his head around. The dishwasher kicked on at that very moment and he snapped his head around to see what was that sound.

I am learning how to increase his drive on the antler and I am slow but surely getting there.

Watching him makes it easy to expect too much too fast. That is my biggest obstacle. Tuesday and Thursday of last week he was 21 out 22 retrieves on the farm in two days. I have cut back his throws to 6s and 8s. That seems to be the right amount.

He was trained to place on a tire with a plywood top - I built two and they are great for his discipline. He likes getting on top of the tires - he knows good things happen. I use that to work on stay - we are increasing the distance he allows me to back up. Repetition is providing us improvement.

Home made video for your comic relief.

Thanks for watching this thread.

 

[dogdoc]

I never worry when a puppy doesn't want to bring back a bumper and wants to keep it for himself. This is natural predation instinct. I worry when the pup doesn't want to go after the bumper at all. Every good lab I have had when young wanted to keep the "prize". The drive for going after the prize is what excites me but I never let the pup have a bumper as a play toy. Proper training will get that pup delivering to hand. After all commands are taught then that's when the e-collar comes into play with proper collar conditioning and then on to force fetch. A well trained force fetched dog will retrieve or pick up anything that it is commanded to pick up and deliver to hand. --bumper, bird, newspaper, toy! I use various objects while force fetching starting with a gloved hand, then on to a soft paint roller, then on to a bumper, then to a dead bird.

You're on the right track and keep up the fun
todd

 

[wbpdeer]

Dogdoc

This pup has great drive and desire to retrieve an antler. If I hold his collar and throw the rubber antler he is a handful. His obedience is soft in the early part of the day and solid at lunch and afternoon. He does not see as far as I would expect him to. When he is inside his exercise pen, I have to get within 35 or 40 yards before he recognizes me.

His sight recognition on an antler is very good. Motion fires him up - such as me moving the antler in a windmill motion and letting it fly.

I have changed his drill today to keeping him on his tire (place) as I back pedal. I drop an antler behind me and keep him on place as I walk to him. I give him a food treat after good eye contact and praise. Then I direct my hand to the antler and say "Find the Bone." Scotty is on cue to the antler.

I set two antlers out in front of a pair of silhouettes that are 90 degrees apart. He was in the house and then I walk him out. I got to a tire that is front of the greenhouse and worked him about 2 minutes. Then I moved him to the tire position with 8 steps of the two antlers.

He was as right as rain on both antlers. The owner of these dogs hand feed all of her pups on tire platforms to teach them place. Scotty loves his tires - good things happen there.

Dogdoc as you know I am a rookie. Your feedback is valuable. Thanks for taking the time to share your experience. This pup was born on Oct 21st and I think he is doing great. I am learning as fast as I can.

How to train puppies to place? Feed them / treat them there. This is a photo from Skyline Drive Kennels. 'Nuff said.



Scotty is not one of the pups in the photo above - but he was trained on the same tire platforms. And very well IMO. I am using that training to my advantage now.

Thanks for reading this thread.

 

[wbpdeer]

Took a photo of my silhouette training setup. The tire platform is about 8 steps from each silhouette. The first day of use as shown was Thursday, Feb 2nd. It worked well for Scotty's training experience.

I have added a red circle around each antler image - the sunlight makes them look different but they are identical and made out of plastic. Waiting for the air temperature to improve before we go out today.



The silhouettes being at 90 degree angles allows me to walk from one to another. He accepts a tire platform without hesitation.

Thanks for reading this thread.

Wayne

 

[dogdoc]

Love the tire platform. The "place" command is a valuable training tool. We use the place platform for not only simple obedience training but also teaching steadiness and later on hand commands. A well trained dog is a more enjoyable dog. You are on the right track my friend and I am enjoying watching your progress. Like I said I have no experience with shed dogs but a lot of the basics are the same when training these retrievers.
Have fun my friend
todd

 

[wbpdeer]

Thanks Todd for your help and encouragement.

I am having fun. Today is day 15 with us and we are amazed at his growth and his abilities. He loves the tire platform. New plywood and I painted the top - they are a bit slick. He eases on them. His kennel handlers hand feed the pups on the tires some and it created great acceptance. Scotty has a strong food drive and I have tapped into that.

I am able to back 40 to 50 feet and keep him seated on place. This is great improvement over the first couple of days here. He keeps two eyes on my right hand pocket - that is where his treats come from.

His first hand command is the direction to which antler to go to - the training setup has two antlers at 90 degree angles. He has made some progress on that in two days. Today's temps will be suitable for afternoon training session.

Thanks again Todd.

Wayne