Sawtooth Oaks

Oakseeds said:
I suspect the concern is that if they become widely established, they may become a problem in some areas .. so far they appear to be OK
www.dnr.wi.gov/topic/Invasives/fact/SawtoothOak.html
www.invasiveplantatlas.org/subject.html?sub=10086
www.nps.gov/cue/epmt/products/Quercus acutissima 2012 NCREPMT.pdf
www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publication/?seqNo115=143169&pf=1
www.invasive.org/browse/subthumb.cfm?sub=10086
The USDA piece is interesting.
P.S. the Invasive.Org says ... Ecological Threat... "Quercus acutissima has been found in recent years to escape plantings and establish in nearby forests, potentially displacing native vegetation. It is native to Asia and has been widely planted in the United States as an ornamental and as food for wildlife. It is no longer recommended for planting in the United States because of its potential impact on native ecosystems."
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I understand all of that and it's probably true where the land owner is not much of a steward. These things are super easy to grow and have a strong will to live (I have some that the deer and rabbits bite off at ground level every yr. and they just keep coming back.). I can also completely see them being VERY competitive with native trees. They produce a ton of nuts and grow extremely fast for an oak.
With that said; I spend a lot of time fighting Johnson Grass, Sericea Lespedeza, and Honey Locust. They are all extremely prolific and hard to manage and certainly give me the perspective that I don't want to introduce another invasive. But, I have not seen the same characteristics in the Sawtooth as I have in those plants. I think an afternoon walk in the woods with a gallon of Remedy Ultra in a hand sprayer would take care of any problems a Sawtooth could present for the yr. The true danger is if someone planted a bunch of them and then walked away for 30yrs. or died and left the land to someone who didn't know what they were working with. I think they could become naturalized real easily in that situation.
 
Sawtooths are non native, but I would not classify them as invasive. They are not going to disperse and take over an area like Chinese tallow or Brazilian pepper will. My dad's neighbor has some sawtooths that are over 20 years old and the only sawtooths he has on his place are the ones he planted. Compare that to water oaks that will pop up everywhere if given the chance. My biggest problem with sawtooths is that they drop early and the time between the first and last acorn dropping is about two weeks. They don't drop for very long.
 
My forester doesnt like them, but has agreed not to give me a hard time if i leave them to food plots. Good thing since the state sold them to me years ago.
I get it. I find them growing on my place from seed. But like Catscratch said, my woodlot would be full of boxelder, black willow, and MFR if i wasnt engaged. Native oak regeneration is in trouble, but it isnt because sawtooth oaks are shading the woods floor. Can you imagine anything that seeds like a maple?
 
I wouldn't get too worried about STO being on the list. If you look through the list of invasive s you see a good majority of them are urban landscape plants. Even orange, lemon, avocado and other fruit trees are on there. Around here the only exotic that is really becoming a problem is bradford pear. other than that it's all natives like eastern red cedar, locust, mulberry, elm, blackgum & black walnut. If an oak tree falls in the woods and sunlight hits the ground, that area will fill up with the natives listed above. I'd take a sawtooth in those areas any day over the others. Ideally a blackjack or postoak should be replanted there though, but not every piece of land receives the stewardship that most of ours do.
 
I have probably 15 producing now but like the bareroot saplings.Kansas quit selling them but I can usually find them somewhere,thanks for the offer.
 
Sawtooths don't survive well in my zone, trust me Ive tried. I agree you are correct they are not native, but frankly speaking we have non-natives all over the place.. introduction of them by state organizations aren't surprising to me either because they do provide an abundance of benefit that native trees do not. The reality is if they become very abundant in an area its going to be localized and done so by someone that is promoting them and killing other competing trees/vegetation... I wouldn't be scared of sawtooth plantings getting away from folks at this point.
 
Jon said:
Sawtooths don't survive well in my zone, trust me Ive tried. I agree you are correct they are not native, but frankly speaking we have non-natives all over the place.. introduction of them by state organizations aren't surprising to me either because they do provide an abundance of benefit that native trees do not. The reality is if they become very abundant in an area its going to be localized and done so by someone that is promoting them and killing other competing trees/vegetation... I wouldn't be scared of sawtooth plantings getting away from folks at this point.
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I got some Sawtooth's from the NY DEC Seedling sale a couple years ago and 3 out of 5 are still alive. They only offered them in a hardwood package of (5 each) Chinkapin Oak, Sawtooth Oak, and Red Oak. They didn't offer them this year so must be a once in awhile thing.
If you are still planting, this year the DEC should be offering Allegheny Chinquapins (Castanea pumila) which grow more as a shrub but are a little more tolerant of our zone and produce a small chestnut at an early age.
 
Troubled Trees said:
I got some Sawtooth's from the NY DEC Seedling sale a couple years ago and 3 out of 5 are still alive. They only offered them in a hardwood package of (5 each) Chinkapin Oak, Sawtooth Oak, and Red Oak. They didn't offer them this year so must be a once in awhile thing.
If you are still planting, this year the DEC should be offering Allegheny Chinquapins (Castanea pumila) which grow more as a shrub but are a little more tolerant of our zone and produce a small chestnut at an early age.
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I’ve been recommending for clients dwarf chinkapin oaks, they do fairly well in zone 5 like most of NY we are dealing with acidic souls which plagued our below avg soil and our friend in the Ohio valley helped that years ago. I’m not saying don’t plant sawtooth as an alternative (to be clear)

What have you felt worked well on your property?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
They are pretty easy to grow from acorns. I have several that I grew from acorns Catscratch sent me. I simply grew them in modified 2 liter bottles into seedlings and then transplanted into my plots. I got the acorns in 2017.....and some of my trees are now 4 and 5 feet tall now. Not all of them....but those I really took care of are doing real well. My intent is that they become a decent hard mast producer in my area where I lack acorn production in general. I have some that my intent is to turn them into shrubs as well for cover and food.....since they like to hold their leaves as well.
 
j-bird said:
They are pretty easy to grow from acorns. I have several that I grew from acorns Catscratch sent me. I simply grew them in modified 2 liter bottles into seedlings and then transplanted into my plots. I got the acorns in 2017.....and some of my trees are now 4 and 5 feet tall now. Not all of them....but those I really took care of are doing real well. My intent is that they become a decent hard mast producer in my area where I lack acorn production in general. I have some that my intent is to turn them into shrubs as well for cover and food.....since they like to hold their leaves as well.
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I was wondering how those were doing. Thanks for the update!
I have a row that I alternated "good care" vs "shrub care". Huge difference in what the trees look like. Caged trees are much taller and better looking than the one's that were left to fend for themselves.
 
Jon said:
I’ve been recommending for clients dwarf chinkapin oaks, they do fairly well in zone 5 like most of NY we are dealing with acidic souls which plagued our below avg soil and our friend in the Ohio valley helped that years ago. I’m not saying don’t plant sawtooth as an alternative (to be clear)

What have you felt worked well on your property?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


I have planted over 1,000 trees, shrubs, and berry bushes in the last 4 years since I acquired the property, my plantings are very diversified with a little bit of everything really. The worst growers would be Persimmon and Cherry, Northern White Cedar is a slow grower anyway but has only gained 6" in 2 years. Most everything is slow growing to be honest, most of which can be attributed to the lack of nutrients in my soil. For me the Allegheny Chinquapins have grown the most, Bur Oak and Heartnut are probably a tie or close second for the nut producers, plums did surprisingly well, as did pears and apples. Ninebark is a prolific grower as is ROD on my land. Everything else seems lethargic without supplementing nutrients with fertilizers which I haven't done much of yet, this summer isn't a fair judge due to the lack of rain and my inability to water everything, I just don't have the resources to keep everything watered but managed to keep this years plantings wet.
 
catscratch said:
I was wondering how those were doing. Thanks for the update!
I have a row that I alternated "good care" vs "shrub care". Huge difference in what the trees look like. Caged trees are much taller and better looking than the one's that were left to fend for themselves.
Click to expand...
Some I have are not even knee high....those are not as well cared for. My "nice" ones.....they are 5 feet tall...but they are babied. A lot has to do with soils and other conditions as well as how they are cared for from what I have seen. I also know sawtooth grow much faster than other oaks as well..... I keep holding out for my nice ones to show signs of an acorn...but none so far.
 
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